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27 minutes ago, no god anywhere said:

@MultiLockOn

 

"...because you somehow feel like you see a path and deserve to traverse it."

 

I wont debate a strawman. Ive been around, you should know better than this. I stated my POV based in reason, not of the emotion it makes me feel.

 

"Saying it doesn't add anything to the game is pretty disingenuous."

 

If my wife stopped opening her legs except when i did chores, it wouldnt add anything to my marriage. Designing a map with minimal pathways and then making a gimmick out of accessing more otherwise isnt adding anything to the game. Not only through readdition of more pathways being accessible to the key holder, the gameplay it creates(more achievable in a standard map) doesnt even make up for the simplified pathing for the majority of players without the key.  Its still a net loss.

 

"If you like the "classic" nature of Halo's weapons and powerups (and I've used quotations for a reason, it should read "bullshit") then no, you won't like the key"

 

Shocker. You dont like halo so therefore a game that plays like halo would be "patently worse experience in every way and I mean that." No, anything that doesnt play like halo on halo would be patently worse and i mean that. I dont need to add power weapons behind doors(on literally any disc map) so you can play it to know it would be better than your route. It would be the standard halo experience with an added layer of depth without good level design as an expense. Besides, the proof is still your own burden. Your method of key design hasnt shown anything needing to be disproved.

 

"I wanted something that was inherent to the map because tying it to a gametype implies that the map could be played without the gametype and key attached.  And to be totally honest, that's just not possible.  You will never come up with a good key design that can just as easily be subtracted from the map and still 'works', it can't be done because then it's not designed around the key.  And it needs to be built around it. It's not just difficult, it's literally not possible. "

 

Good paragraph. This is why it wont work, assuming we have the same idea of what "a good key design" implies and under halo circumstances. Its an inherent flaw. Besides, you could achieve the same level and more of desired gameplay and enjoyment from just loading up a disc map without a key to go fetch. When you think about it, you managed to create a devolution of level design by tying the key into the map.  Great work.

 

 

 

❤️ you multi.

I feel like I disagree with almost all of this haha I hope your trolling no god....

 

The key most certainly adds a layer of tactical depth, not every maps needs to have paths leading everywhere.  If it's not a product for you, so be it... This all just seems very opinionated and not based in objective truths. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, SaltyKoalaBear said:

I feel like I disagree with almost all of this haha I hope your trolling no god....

 

The key most certainly adds a layer of tactical depth, not every maps needs to have paths leading everywhere.  If it's not a product for you, so be it... This all just seems very opinionated and not based in objective truths. 

 

 

Feel free to elaborate. Im open minded. What objective truths, what tactical gameplay etc?

Edited by no god anywhere

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, icyhotspartin said:

 

But if you buy her chocolates and wine and a ticket to a musical... 😉

She works at a candy factory, doesnt drink, and theres no babysitter. Id probably still be at home arguing about a key map in a 5 year old game i dont even play anymore.

Edited by no god anywhere

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Each person’s take on the concept seems to be based on perception:

 

You either believe the key adds to an experience that is enjoyable even without the key

 

or

 

You believe the experience is less enjoyable without the key as a result of the limitations necessary to make the key impactful.

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13 hours ago, Xzamplez said:

Each person’s take on the concept seems to be based on perception:

 

You either believe the key adds to an experience that is enjoyable even without the key

 

or

 

You believe the experience is less enjoyable without the key as a result of the limitations necessary to make the key impactful.

 

All takes must be based on perception. I think you mean to say 'premises', where the default premises for both those takes are 'the key is an interchangeable powerup like the OS'.

 

My premises are different. The Key is the experience, that's why it's important to know why you're grabbing it and how you're going to use it (or not). It's a whole other ballgame that is unfortunately based on H5's mechanics and sandbox.

 

Therefore, my take on Arcanum is that there is no map without the key, and there is no key without that map. The two are integrated, in terms of geometry and mechanics. The sum is greater than the parts. The function and form inform and dictate each other. It's well-built.

 

@Soldat Du Christ I thought I was the 'purple map guy', looks cool 👍

 

Re. delay, @Westin did you get Tyler to delete Infinite? Because I wasn't joking earlier  :Mixed_Emotions:

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49 minutes ago, no god anywhere said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Halo/status/1293261002037841920?s=19

 

Infinite delayed till 2021. Let's gooooooo.

 

Ofc they blame it on covid though.

Would rather they delay to improve than release a half baked mess that kills off the community and overall playercount within the first few months. Though, its no safe bet its gonna be gud whenever they release it.

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1 hour ago, icyhotspartin said:

 

All takes must be based on perception. I think you mean to say 'premises', where the default premises for both those takes are 'the key is an interchangeable powerup like the OS'.

 

My premises are different. The Key is the experience, that's why it's important to know why you're grabbing it and how you're going to use it (or not). It's a whole other ballgame that is unfortunately based on H5's mechanics and sandbox.

 

Therefore, my take on Arcanum is that there is no map without the key, and there is no key without that map. The two are integrated, in terms of geometry and mechanics. The sum is greater than the parts. The function and form inform and dictate each other. It's well-built.

 

@Soldat Du Christ I thought I was the 'purple map guy', looks cool 👍

 

Re. delay, @Westin did you get Tyler to delete Infinite? Because I wasn't joking earlier  :Mixed_Emotions:

I meant perception. Salty was saying that NGA’s take wasn’t based on objective truths. Your opinion of whether the key adds or detracts from the experience depends on your perception of the concept.

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3 minutes ago, Xzamplez said:

I meant perception. Salty was saying that NGA’s take wasn’t based on objective truths. Your opinion of whether the key adds or detracts from the experience depends on your perception of the concept.

 

I get that. This is my thought process :

 

The perception is processed according to one's held premises. If the operating premise is wrong, then the take that comes from the perception and experience of the thing (concept or object) will be wrong.

 

My point is that the premise underlying both of the takes you provided does not allow for the proper processing of the perception, of the experience of the key. You might be right that those takes are based on perception only, because to me they are not processed with the full context of what the key does.

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7 minutes ago, Xzamplez said:

I meant perception. Salty was saying that NGA’s take wasn’t based on objective truths. Your opinion of whether the key adds or detracts from the experience depends on your perception of the concept.

Correct. Too say you don't value or enjoy the tactical layer that the key mechanic provides on arcanum is one thing, but to say it doesn't exist is just flat out objectively wrong. 

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, SaltyKoalaBear said:

Correct. Too say you don't value or enjoy the tactical layer that the key mechanic provides on arcanum is one thing, but to say it doesn't exist is just flat out objectively wrong. 

I assume this is referring to me, except i never said that. I said it doesnt add anything, not that it doesnt exist. It doesnt add anything as in could i be making any decision holding the key that i couldnt make if the key mechanic didnt exist? Though i will point out that there are decisions i cant make if im not holding the key, that i could make if the key mechanic didnt exist. If removing opportunity, and having to choose a different option because less are available to me is "adding tactical depth" then thats objectively wrong.

 

The key mechanic is not really my gripe, its the level design the key mechanic requires to function and how its a pointless tradeoff. Unless you prefer to be forced into a more linear gameplay, which is objectively less complex than having all options available to all players at all times.

 

Again, im open minded and you can clarify for me where my thought process may be wrong but this would be the second time i asked. If you responded to me the first time we could have skipped your "so what youre saying is...." post.

Edited by no god anywhere

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Posted (edited)

Jokes on you guys the delay won't do anything except just that... Delayed launch of an incomplete game.

 

Let's be honest. With 5 years down the drain and nothing to show for it, they're clearly delaying it to get the game playable (performance/crashes) they're not delaying it for quality/polish.

 

 

matched-betting.jpg

 

 

i'd love to be wrong but.... LOL 

 

 

 

HOLY SHIT I JUST RELIZED WHAT IS XBOX SERIES X GOING TO LAUNCH WITH?

 

 AHAHAH 343 YOU FUCKED MICROSOFT OVER. 343 IS GETTING AXED.

 

THAT STUDIO IS GETTING SHUT DOWN IN A YEAR OR 2. CALLING IT NOW

 

stepped on the wrong toes now

 

 

like literally Micosoft just lost their money. That's software and hardware sales pretty much down the drain until a good game release for it. HA f you 343

Edited by JB_

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1 hour ago, no god anywhere said:

I assume this is referring to me, except i never said that. I said it doesnt add anything, not that it doesnt exist. It doesnt add anything as in could i be making any decision holding the key that i couldnt make if the key mechanic didnt exist? Though i will point out that there are decisions i cant make if im not holding the key, that i could make if the key mechanic didnt exist. If removing opportunity, and having to choose a different option because less are available to me is "adding tactical depth" then thats objectively wrong.

 

The key mechanic is not really my gripe, its the level design the key mechanic requires to function and how its a pointless tradeoff. Unless you prefer to be forced into a more linear gameplay, which is objectively less complex than having all options available to all players at all times.

 

Again, im open minded and you can clarify for me where my thought process may be wrong but this would be the second time i asked. If you responded to me the first time we could have skipped your "so what youre saying is...." post.

I've just been busy, been traveling past few days. I promise I'll give you a detailed response when I have the time to give it. Don't want to short change the response if that's understandable. 

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8 hours ago, JB_ said:

they're clearly delaying it to get the game playable (performance/crashes) they're not delaying it for quality/polish.

Yeah, that was my point.

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21 hours ago, icyhotspartin said:

 

All takes must be based on perception. I think you mean to say 'premises', where the default premises for both those takes are 'the key is an interchangeable powerup like the OS'.

 

My premises are different. The Key is the experience, that's why it's important to know why you're grabbing it and how you're going to use it (or not). It's a whole other ballgame that is unfortunately based on H5's mechanics and sandbox.

 

Therefore, my take on Arcanum is that there is no map without the key, and there is no key without that map. The two are integrated, in terms of geometry and mechanics. The sum is greater than the parts. The function and form inform and dictate each other. It's well-built.

 

@Soldat Du Christ I thought I was the 'purple map guy', looks cool 👍

 

Re. delay, @Westin did you get Tyler to delete Infinite? Because I wasn't joking earlier  :Mixed_Emotions:

where did you think the delay came from? they're trying to figure out where it went

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