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I think that the biggest problem with Cyberpunk 2077 is that many people were of the belief that player characters were gonna be nearly as customizable as a lite version of D&D. The enhancements, body types, and augmentations that are clearly available in universe but not in gameplay are a big part of the Cyberpunk fantasy that was only a small portion of what was possible in the 2020 tabletop game. I know that I was looking forward to having a buff as fuck female character like one of the members of that one gang that I don't remember the name of. I would've loved to have those augmentations as essentially D&D races with the statistic buffs/nerfs and intrinsic traits/abilities, but with the ability to change them at will (in certain shops or clinics or whatever). Imagine being able to have essentially a monkey tail that, when paired with a low body character, would allow the player to hang upside down from pipe-like structures indefinitely, and higher body characters would consume stamina while in use. Or the ability to go full cyborg and have a fuck ton of augmentations and absurdly good body/tech stats all at once at a high cost to coolness, multiple stat debuffs, or a number of NPCs only seeing you as a living weapon.

 

This game was hyped up to be an RPG akin to a tabletop game with the first person perspective of a well polished open world, but we all know that that was far to unrealistic, even with the 10 year development cycle at an experienced studio such as CDPR. A bit proponent of these unrealistic expectations I'd argue is the fact that the advertising DID shift from primarily as an RPG to an Action Adventure focused game. People didn't notice what was missing: just what it was replaced with. The hype meshed the two into a hyper-game that could never be realistically developed by a modern developer of any size. It's mainly frustrating because I fell into the hype dwelling on what the game could be, fantasizing away as I was supposed to be doing my homework (my fucking god, this game has made me miss deadlines on projects since I was a sophomore in highschool). I'll admit that this daydreaming is why I and many other people have high expectations that cannot be effectively delivered. I hope that we can eventually have a game that delivers on the hype of Cyberpunk 2077, but I can still enjoy this game and many others in the meantime, so there's no ill will as I always remind myself that these devs are human; perfection should NEVER be expected.

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34 minutes ago, Soldat Du Christ said:

so close to the top of the map

photomode_16122020_134002.thumb.png.286b4984e4f89bec852ebd39025e0680.png

 

your map is broken, I escaped - DQ'd!

 

36 minutes ago, Kantalope said:

I think that the biggest problem with Cyberpunk 2077 is that many people were of the belief that player characters were gonna be nearly as customizable as a lite version of D&D. The enhancements, body types, and augmentations that are clearly available in universe but not in gameplay are a big part of the Cyberpunk fantasy that was only a small portion of what was possible in the 2020 tabletop game. I know that I was looking forward to having a buff as fuck female character like one of the members of that one gang that I don't remember the name of. I would've loved to have those augmentations as essentially D&D races with the statistic buffs/nerfs and intrinsic traits/abilities, but with the ability to change them at will (in certain shops or clinics or whatever). Imagine being able to have essentially a monkey tail that, when paired with a low body character, would allow the player to hang upside down from pipe-like structures indefinitely, and higher body characters would consume stamina while in use. Or the ability to go full cyborg and have a fuck ton of augmentations and absurdly good body/tech stats all at once at a high cost to coolness, multiple stat debuffs, or a number of NPCs only seeing you as a living weapon.

 

This game was hyped up to be an RPG akin to a tabletop game with the first person perspective of a well polished open world, but we all know that that was far to unrealistic, even with the 10 year development cycle at an experienced studio such as CDPR. A bit proponent of these unrealistic expectations I'd argue is the fact that the advertising DID shift from primarily as an RPG to an Action Adventure focused game. People didn't notice what was missing: just what it was replaced with. The hype meshed the two into a hyper-game that could never be realistically developed by a modern developer of any size. It's mainly frustrating because I fell into the hype dwelling on what the game could be, fantasizing away as I was supposed to be doing my homework (my fucking god, this game has made me miss deadlines on projects since I was a sophomore in highschool). I'll admit that this daydreaming is why I and many other people have high expectations that cannot be effectively delivered. I hope that we can eventually have a game that delivers on the hype of Cyberpunk 2077, but I can still enjoy this game and many others in the meantime, so there's no ill will as I always remind myself that these devs are human; perfection should NEVER be expected.

 

I was sort of with you until perfection comment - perfection can and should be expected, especially by the devs. As much as I meme the invis blockers, it's true! The map is escapable, and therefore flawed in an objective sense. Something that simple to avoid should be baked into the design. 

 

But upon further thought, I think that the things people expect of 2077 are feasible in a AAA game. There are interchangeable and modular player models in things like Reach (Kat's arm?) and Fallout 3 (especially with mods), there are vast open (and semi-open) worlds with quests , branching storylines, and believable NPC behavior in GTA 5, Witcher 3, Dishonored and Prey, and there are well-established dungeon-lite RPGs with shooting, crafting, and skill-tree mechanics in games like Breath of the Wild, Borderlands, and Metro... I mean, all these systems that people expected to exist in Cyberpunk 2077 because of the marketing leading up to 2018 and then the teasing of open words and branching quests since then already exist in a proven format somewhere else. 

 

Shit, even Super Mario Sunshine proves that a semi-open world could be designed with a cohesive theme and civilizational structure with reused or modular assets for different missions and challenges, and that game was released on an unproven and nearly forgotten console in the year 2000 (or 2001?). Only 7 years later, you had Fallout 3, which had fantastic moment-to-moment gameplay in the overworld and interesting dungeon quests, on top of an expansive customization and skill/buff system. Sure, it looked dated on the old hardware, but man, did they make their money count!

 

Perfection can and should be expected. You just cannot be all things to all people and expect not to have a big mess on your hands. 2077 looks to be a victim of the loss of a central vision, which is really sad, because the groundwork had already been laid in the tabletop.

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22 hours ago, Westin said:

 

Yeah that idea in my video was referring to the feedback loop of what gameplay rewards - not just visual stimulation or whatever. For example - quake has bred extremely respectful players because of how upright the game is when dishing out reward/loss, while COD is horrifically toxic. That's how games can effect us and what I was talking about. Cyberpunk doesn't reward deplorable activity, in fact being morally upright gets people to befriend and help you just like the witcher 3. No it's definitely not good to watch sex scenes, but that's why we skip them.

 

ALRIGHT well that being said... this was a pathetic attempt to deconstruct an idea. For the millionth-billionth-trillionth time nathan you unrelenting madman, our conduct does not determine whether or not an idea is true

Whatever you need to tell yourself and convince yourself that your sinful worldly pleasure indulgences aren't so. 

 

 

@icyhotspartin Imperfect human creations attaining perfection.... Absolute philosopical ascendance!

 

By the way I don't think words are finger paints, I just have the humility to know that a simple verbal utterance or written symbol can't accurately communicate extremely complex biological states associated with the nervous system brought on by neurophysiological changes variously associated with thoughts, feelings, behavioural responses, and a degree of pleasure or displeasure. ... Emotions produce different physiological, behavioral and cognitive changes that are unique to the individuals experiencing them. Words are very broad things, and while I agree they do a pretty good job at accurately describing tangible things our physical pherierpary organs can sense and process,  they absolutely fall short at describing untangible stimuli like emotions. The meaning of the word sad is going to vary greatly from one man to the next, even if 99% of it's meaning is agreed upon. It's important to understand the shortcomings of human language if we want to learn how to communicate better, not only with eachother but with ourselves. 

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1 hour ago, Westin said:

you're attempting to argue with words as to why words aren't objective, which if true, means the argument you are making is built on sand and cannot be trusted, because you're using a shifting medium (subjective words) to argue an objective point. It's like...it's like if I made a youtube video in order to prove that youtube doesn't exist. Just like that, you're proving your own point null from the start, regardless of the word salad that comes after.

 

Thanks

 

1 hour ago, SaltyKoalaBear said:

@icyhotspartin Imperfect human creations attaining perfection.... Absolute philosopical ascendance!

 

By the way I don't think words are finger paints, I just have the humility to know that a simple verbal utterance or written symbol can't accurately communicate extremely complex biological states associated with the nervous system brought on by neurophysiological changes variously associated with thoughts, feelings, behavioural responses, and a degree of pleasure or displeasure. ... Emotions produce different physiological, behavioral and cognitive changes that are unique to the individuals experiencing them. Words are very broad things, and while I agree they do a pretty good job at accurately describing tangible things our physical pherierpary organs can sense and process,  they absolutely fall short at describing untangible stimuli like emotions. The meaning of the word sad is going to vary greatly from one man to the next, even if 99% of it's meaning is agreed upon. It's important to understand the shortcomings of human language if we want to learn how to communicate better, not only with eachother but with ourselves. 

 

 

Sorry, I couldn't understand most of that because clearly you are using different psycho-conceptual hieroglyphics to communicate and I just don't have any of the necessary tools to translate because my emotions are producing chemico-vascular pulses in my glans cognitans that don't line up with the sensations you are sending me via electro-crystal wavelengths.

 

What's 'Philosopy'? Is that related at all to 'Sloplipsism'? If not, could you elaborate on what it means while also addressing the merit of my argument re. perfection that you so handily a priori ad-hominem'd out of existence?

 

And by the way, I am serious, life is too short for the kind of petty arguments you're leveling against... let's see... the same two (three?) guys in an ongoing attempt to one-up them on some moral point which you've implicitly  conceded time after time by not addressing the counters to your position. Not to mention, you accept the fundamental premise of the ethics you belittle: that Humanity is by definition imperfect, and therefore incapable of achieving, let alone conceiving of perfection. Either try and learn something in earnest or stop it. It's sad and immature.

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I'll address the responses to my post eventually, but I must first congratulate 343i for being big dumbasses again! They added essentially Halo 4/5 armor to Halo 3 in the new season for MCC! I can't wait for everyone to start wearing hot pink undersuits and crazy reclaimer era forerunner looking helmets with their super soaker AR and BR! Woohoo! This is easily the best closer for Halo in 2020!

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1 hour ago, Xzamplez said:

Remnant From the Ashes is fun. Starts slow, gets better. 

If that game didn't have randomly generated levels it might be one of my favorite games ever. What platform are you on? My good friend Ryan was a key designer on it and I'm sure he'd be down to play with the both of us. 

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2 hours ago, Kantalope said:

I'll address the responses to my post eventually, but I must first congratulate 343i for being big dumbasses again! They added essentially Halo 4/5 armor to Halo 3 in the new season for MCC! I can't wait for everyone to start wearing hot pink undersuits and crazy reclaimer era forerunner looking helmets with their super soaker AR and BR! Woohoo! This is easily the best closer for Halo in 2020!

April fool’s isn’t for another 6 months

 

@MultiLockOn you made it to 152, congrats! You get the Star Wars skin for infinite

 

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2 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

If that game didn't have randomly generated levels it might be one of my favorite games ever. What platform are you on? My good friend Ryan was a key designer on it and I'm sure he'd be down to play with the both of us. 

Me and my buddy are playing it on xbox one. At first I wasnt really feeling the level design on earth, but with each new world I feel it gets better and better. We both like the enemy designs, and are really liking the boss fights. I never really got into the Souls games, but this gives me a taste of why the formula has such an enthusiastic fan base.

 

That’s sick you know someone that worked on it. Its been a really pleasant surprise for something I bought on a whim.

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I have a question for all of you.

 

In a competitive Halo map, there is an item to contest in the middle. That item grants you increased health, speed, maneuverability, and an infinite supply of high explosives. You can keep this item so long as you don't die, or someone takes it from you.

 

With only that description, does the item sound like it fits in a competitive Halo map?

Edited by S0UL FLAME
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20 minutes ago, Westin said:

I think most Halo players disagree with me when I say that simply timing/being present for an item is not hard enough to warrant the insane advantages it often rewards, and I would say the same here. It's just really not that hard to go to a certain spot every 2 minutes, and the reward for winning a fight is already reward enough in my book, an increase in score and the advantage of re-positioning freely while the enemy is dead. Adding a powerup on top of that which makes you better in every way is just too much. At the same time, players aren't willing to be subtle about how they go after pickups because of how match-deciding they are, and the best strategy (depending on the pickup) is likely to turn your brain off and run at the glowy thing, or camp where the glowy thing will pop up with your brain still deactivated because remember "Multi, once we have it, we win the next few minutes/fights for free." This being a fundamental problem because any time you are handed free kills, your opponent is being stripped of the opportunity to compete. A moment of non-integrity as there's little to nothing someone can do in a 1v1 against OS. And yes, I dislike it on Arcanum too, but interestingly enough I actually really like the fights over that room, so I would aim to keep that, just with a better designed pickup.

 

Though fighting over tide-changing pickups is a recognizeable part of Halos identity, so while Halo kids like jb will fight me to the death on this point, that's what I think.

He is referring to the banshee 

 

I’ll just ask what do you guys think of vehicles in competitive play? Specifically the banshee 

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I’ve yet to see a map that integrates  vehicles for player counts below 4v4 (8). Even H3 Isolation doesn’t manage it, because the rockets are right in front of the ghost. Big waste! 
 

Screw the Banshee, and screw Ascendance. Absolute 🐕

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2 minutes ago, Westin said:

The banshee doesn't really fit that description anyways.

Wrong.

 

The banshee indeed grants you all of the things I set forth in my post, and can ultimately dominate the enemy team with little effort for a standard player, and even more with an experienced pilot. However, the same vehicle can be countered with squad gunfire, a well placed sticky, or an EMP from a power drain or Plasma Pistol. This is a problem.

 

I have had games where vehicles are a great annoyance. I have had games where vehicles are of little use. I have never had a match where the vehicles feel just right on a map, and provide ample challenge for the team controlling them, or attacking them. There is no map made by Bungie, or 343, or a Forger, where I thought the vehicles on them felt "good". It's always on the two extremes of "too damn strong" or "hardly worth using". You could make an argument for the Falcon in Reach, or the Mongoose for faster flag caps and bomb arming, but I wouldn't consider it worthy because of the aforementioned latter extreme.

 

Someone who wants to make a map for vehicles would need to painstakingly craft it in such a specific way for it to work, that it would make said vehicles feel right at home within the playspace. I can't name a single map in existence where someone managed to make a Warthog fun to use and fight against, or a Ghost, or a Wasp or Hornet or Falcon, and most definitely not a Banshee.

 

Until further evidence can be given, I'll stick by the statement that vehicles in Halo are dog.

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Soul what kind of stupid trick question is that lmao. 

 

Regardless the answer is it's dumb right way, the banshee just makes it way dumber because unlike a blatant obnoxious powerup where you still have to aim a gun, the banshee not only buffs you but removes any possible way to be skillful. 

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24 minutes ago, Westin said:

With your initial post, you made it sound like whatever you were talking about was a buff to the players movement and damage without explaining any of the downsides that comes with using a banshee.

The downsides to using it, is that it can be stolen, or you can die with it. I did mention those in my question. Once you're in a Banshee, there's not many reasons to exit if you're confident in your own ability to utilize it. That's my issue with them, along with my post that further explained my thoughts on the two extremes of them, and the rest of the vehicle sandbox.

 

Apologies for not articulating it well enough.

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4 hours ago, S0UL FLAME said:

I have a question for all of you.

 

In a competitive Halo map, there is an item to contest in the middle. That item grants you increased health, speed, maneuverability, and an infinite supply of high explosives. You can keep this item so long as you don't die, or someone takes it from you.

 

With only that description, does the item sound like it fits in a competitive Halo map?

key

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Soul is right that there are a lot of unbalanced moments with vehicles in Halo games. Most games in vanilla MM that include vehicles often come down to one or two players on either team who can use that vehicle in any capacity, or it gets totally btfo'd right off the spawn every time by grenades/explosives. But I don't think that's due to a flaw in the vehicles' design, but rather the implementation on certain maps and the lack of team coordination in most MM games + stupid use or misuse by dumb players. If you are queueing solo for BTB and you end up with 7 Johnny No-Thumbs on your team against two 4-person parties that coordinate around vehicles, no shit, that's going to be unbalanced. It doesn't even matter what map you're on, the same holds for 4v4. It's been my experience that vehicles are largely ignored if they aren't the Ghost or the Banshee, as there is no way to effectively attack with them.  Of course, the Banshee and Ghost do remove a lot of the necessary skill to acquire kills, and are not at all easy to destroy without a power weapon. Sometimes you'll see a guy in a flaming Ghost run over 15 people in the span of 2 minutes because of spawning and speedboost. Mongooses are just positional vehicles (Gungoose notwithstanding, @Kantalope knows why), nobody even looks at them unless they are playing on Last Resort or Valhalla. Total waste! But, hey, most of those maps aren't really designed to leverage small-vehicle positioning. Turf in H2 was always interesting to me because it restricted the Warthog... kinda...  But I guess there's a hidden positive, which is that you can now use your totally OP vehicle to splatter the monstrosity at below/right.

 

70

 

What in the ever-loving fuck are they doing up there in Bellevue? Looking at screens of these H4-> armors in H3 engine only goes to show how superior Bungie's artistic approach was! Why would you shoot yourself in the foot? Again? And again? Hasn't anyone gone to a shareholders' meeting to raise these issues? Has everyone collectively decided that the only way to change what publicly traded companies do is to make stupid clickbait videos that attempt to shame nameless executives into sacrificing their 401k's and severance stock options for some basement boy's childhood memories?

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@Westin @Soldat Du Christ @MultiLockOn didn't one of you say something about how 2077 wasn't marketed as an RPG?

 

Image

 

I mean... I can't really see how it wasn't, except through gradual omission. I wasn't hyped for it, but I distinctly remember it being advertised as an RPG like W3 + original tabletop game over the last 2-3 years, at least.

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