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13 minutes ago, Soldat Du Christ said:

thinking about maps while trying on suits for my wedding, like having an outer body experience

9640.thumb.jpeg.c270bb01b3601fb3e2d995a5cf91d55c.jpeg

 

Congrats! 🍾 

Here’s a tip - assym socks are not competitive design. Try a white cummerbund and a tie that compliments your shoe color

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1 hour ago, Westin said:

What are some design tropes we see in forge maps or maps in general that basically everyone uses? Like, bridges, doors, spiral staircases, broken bridges, stuff like that we see everywhere (in my maps too)

 

Any insight would be greatly appreciated 

What are you trying to figure out exactly? Those seem like really functional tools to use when creating a space. 

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18 minutes ago, Box_Hoes said:

What are you trying to figure out exactly? Those seem like really functional tools to use when creating a space. 

Design tropes, like what I mentioned. I didn't say a word about their merit, just trying to list them off.

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1 hour ago, Box_Hoes said:

I would consider a trope to be a gameplay loop not geometry. Geometry together creates a trope 

... I think it's safe to say that geometry is directly related to gameplay loops. Wasn't that complicated of a question I don't think. Every fight on cobalt is through a door because I overused doors, lol. Just wanted more examples of that sort of thing

 

I can go through maps and spot them myself, but it's nice to have help which is why I asked. Easy to miss stuff.

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7 hours ago, Westin said:

What are some design tropes we see in forge maps or maps in general that basically everyone uses? Like, bridges, doors, spiral staircases, broken bridges, stuff like that we see everywhere (in my maps too)

 

Any insight would be greatly appreciated 

Band-Aid Teleporters and OS Spawns. Balancing  and or breaking maps since the dawn of time.

Edited by SaltyKoalaBear
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50 minutes ago, Westin said:

... I think it's safe to say that geometry is directly related to gameplay loops. Wasn't that complicated of a question I don't think. Every fight on cobalt is through a door because I overused doors, lol. Just wanted more examples of that sort of thing

 

I can go through maps and spot them myself, but it's nice to have help which is why I asked. Easy to miss stuff.


catwalk

lift room

crate room

exterior rounded ramps

crenellations 

2b2t

semi-sym rooms

offset doorways

dropdown chutes

top mid

deathpit

 

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9 hours ago, icyhotspartin said:


catwalk

lift room

crate room

exterior rounded ramps

crenellations 

2b2t

semi-sym rooms

offset doorways

dropdown chutes

top mid

deathpit

 

Ok, so first off, these are conventions of a map. By themselves they are expect and don't pose any problems to design integrity as a whole. A cliche (or trope) that we're talking about here would be something like using a tonne of lazy cover in a way that lowers play exceptions when performing to a more critical and skill based level. It's an intellectually dishonest approach to using geo that results in a lacklustre experience thats usually done to death. Ring around the rosies walls, and thin, strafe combat walls are all lazy designs (in most instances) that create and are often seen in poor decision making on maps, that are groan worthy. Those are your tropes. Doors are a convention, as they're realistically a fine buffer of funnelling player interaction. However, it becomes a trope/cliche when they're overused in a ridiculous fashion that creates an inherently lesser experience, as I presume that is what Westin is on about when he mentions Cobalt.

Edited by FatkidForger

FatKid LD > Core LD

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4 hours ago, FatkidForger said:

Ok, so first off, these are conventions of a map. By themselves they are expect and don't pose any problems to design integrity as a whole. A cliche (or trope) that we're talking about here would be something like using a tonne of lazy cover in a way that lowers play exceptions when performing to a more critical and skill based level. It's an intellectually dishonest approach to using geo that results in a lacklustre experience thats usually done to death. Ring around the rosies walls, and thin, strafe combat walls are all lazy designs (in most instances) that create and are often seen in poor decision making on maps, that are groan worthy. Those are your tropes. Doors are a convention, as they're realistically a fine buffer of funnelling player interaction. However, it becomes a trope/cliche when they're overused in a ridiculous fashion that creates an inherently lesser experience, as I presume that is what Westin is on about when he mentions Cobalt.


yeah, I generally agree with you - it’s difficult not to equate those specific elements I listed as design tropes in and of themselves because of the way they are typically implemented. But again, yeah, that hinges on the entirety of map context. And I wouldn’t say that a trope in inherently negative, though I know it is most often used as a slight pejorative.

 

Something like 3-lane w/ atrium comes to mind, as does ajar doorway, or ‘racetrack’ path, or tele “doorways”, or fusion coil/red barrel hazard

 

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@Westin I just think a few of your examples were vague. People probably read bridge/door and were like, "yeah most maps have those but they don't function the same on every map." Where door to door fights on maps like Cobalt or a top mid bridge are things people can say yeah that typically works the same way on maps that feature them. 

 

It's like saying dad vs saying drunk abusive dad is a movie trope. I think that is where people were having a misunderstanding.

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5 hours ago, Westin said:

I feel like everyone understood exactly what I was asking and then decided to make it complicated

As someone who I took as a firm believer in the objectivity of words(Personally I think words point towards objective meaning and arent objective in and of themselves), id guess others are just holding you to  your own standards.  I knew what you meant, but I dont think trope was the best use of words. Possibly recurring design elements? 

Edited by SaltyKoalaBear
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2 hours ago, SaltyKoalaBear said:

As someone who I took as a firm believer in the objectivity of words(Personally I think words point towards objective meaning and arent objective in and of themselves), id guess others are just holding you to  your own standards.  I knew what you meant, but I dont think trope was the best use of words. Possibly recurring design elements? 

"Recurring design elements" is literally the definition of a trope in the context of a creative product 

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23 minutes ago, Westin said:

"Recurring design elements" is literally the definition of a trope in the context of a creative product 

I think trope implies a combination of design elements used in a specific manner to create a recognizeable form or pattern, but the specific element itself isn't a trope. Like a ramp is just a functional piece of geometry that serves a specific purpose. But  ramps used in x,y, or z manner can become a trope. Get what I'm saying?

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1 hour ago, SaltyKoalaBear said:

I think trope implies a combination of design elements used in a specific manner to create a recognizeable form or pattern, but the specific element itself isn't a trope. Like a ramp is just a functional piece of geometry that serves a specific purpose. But  ramps used in x,y, or z manner can become a trope. Get what I'm saying?

Yeah, I see that

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