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I was reading beyond today (some things really don’t change) and something I’ve never really mentioned just to avoid all the drama and arguing but something I feel compelled to state at this point is @MultiLockOn @Westin you state all your maps punish camping and aren’t reliant on pickups to balance them and the devs don’t know what they are doing.
 

However I think oblivion has more problems than lockout (the dead horse meme map) when it comes to lack of approach when you camp a guy light rifle and above chapel, especially when those players have a lead. There is no hard route to any of those positions and nades aren’t enough to clear players out of them. The teleporter puts you in a very predictable spot that’s vulnerable to nades and people having perspective control above. While you might be able to kill them here and there it doesn’t seem to punish players just sitting watching people spawn outside over and over and over and OVERshield is the only thing that helps make that push which spawns outside. 
 

Arcanum is balanced completely by pick ups. Take the pick ups off it and people will hold key and sit on OS the whole game in the lead. There is no reason to move because the enemy team has to make such a committed push that basically keeps the fight geometrically at a near 50/50. There is no way to breach the back of the room at the top of the stairs making it easy to put your backs and stare at the entrances. Thing is, people holding that room have 2 escape routes that put them in a powerful position (top rocket bridge). So even if you manage to breach the room without dying trying to get there, the smart play is for the winning team to run and just milk time and reposition. Because now after all that work it resets and you’re still in the worse position because that team is winning now in red another defensive spot on the map with poor approaches. I’m not even considering the fact that we could take key back into OS after you guys lap around the whole map trying to cut us off only to do it all over again. And splitting on the map is too risky as you can easily just double the one guy since you are in no position to help each other. 
 

With love is another map where it rewards tower defense. If you choose to sit in the tower you aren’t being punished. Especially in the lead. People are forced to come out for overshield and that’s it. You can easily shoot people trying to jump across the atrium and the bar window doesn’t even clear the room which would have been a solid counter. But it can’t see a staircase that goes into the wall at the top of the tower room. 
 

Odyssey if you have the lead you can sit bottom and create 50/50 fights potentially 60/40 in your favor as pushing the same door to counter can be more punishing. Star walk has no influence on the bottom making you safe. People have to drop all the way down and there is no catwalk or anything that allows perspective control over the room to counter people sitting. Funny enough an overshield in the well would help fix that problem. 
 

To me these maps don’t highlight punishing any form of camping and rely on pick ups to make them work. I’d be willing to take your offer and put my money where my mouth is and show you guys if you’d like, you can even choose my teammate. Even if you kill the people camping some of the time I think it’s “disproportionate” and unjust to all the work you’re doing trying to actively counter these positions. There aren’t bold enough counters to make these positions non desirable to sit unless pick ups are present. 
 

It just worries me you guys can’t see the issues present on these maps since you are making a game. You have really strong principles, but principles are easy. Executing those principles is the challenging part, the rest doesn’t “come easy and just take creativity.” 
 

But what do I know, I’m just a champ who plays everyday and watches high level streams studying to get better and better. 
 

So I’m willing to play you guys with whatever teammate you guys prefer and show you that these maps can collapse and break. And no I’m not saying my maps are any better, I just think it’s dog you guys go around saying your maps are so superior when it reality they are inherently broken and don’t execute the principles you guys preach. Im open to discussing the maps further on here but I think playing will just settle this a lot faster. 

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36 minutes ago, Soldat Du Christ said:

image.thumb.png.370a4cf5e0058c0c37829392edf88cbc.png

i have no idea how to optimize all these assets im dropping in and maxing out, my pc gets warm and start getting loud, im afraid something will blow up

can you adjust the render scale of the objects? If it is possible you should try to optimize them before dropping them in. I don't know how core works at all. So these are just random ass guesses to help gpu deal with that shit.

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I partially started posting on beyond to avoid salty and the gang... I can't escape!

 

@Box_Hoes As a result of our experiences, I no longer have any interest in a discussion with you. I do not care anymore, even the slightest bit, what you think about my maps, or what you think about my posts on another forum. Call it a cop out if you want, but until now I have been open to discuss literally any point down to the detail for about the last 8 years straight. But, it always ends to same way, no matter where. The same tired arguments, the same referrals to rank or skill, the same people whos daily routine consists of waking up, joing an xbox party, and talking shit about me and others. The same dude following me to beyond because he just can't help it. The same everything. You can consider this my official resignation from any sort of investment in talking. There are more important things to worry about. 👋

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25 minutes ago, Westin said:

I partially started posting on beyond to avoid salty and the gang... I can't escape!

 

@Box_Hoes As a result of our experiences, I no longer have any interest in a discussion with you. I do not care anymore, even the slightest bit, what you think about my maps, or what you think about my posts on another forum. Call it a cop out if you want, but until now I have been open to discuss literally any point down to the detail for about the last 8 years straight. But, it always ends to same way, no matter where. The same tired arguments, the same referrals to rank or skill, the same people whos daily routine consists of waking up, joing an xbox party, and talking shit about me and others. The same dude following me to beyond because he just can't help it. The same everything. You can consider this my official resignation from any sort of investment in talking. There are more important things to worry about. 👋

giphy-downsized.gif.e4d4509e4c208e9735b074c40eb2da0f.gif

 

It's okay, you don't have to defend anything. Your maps speak for themselves. Proof is in the pudding. Nothing ambiguous. 

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1 hour ago, Westin said:

I partially started posting on beyond to avoid salty and the gang... I can't escape!

 

@Box_Hoes As a result of our experiences, I no longer have any interest in a discussion with you. I do not care anymore, even the slightest bit, what you think about my maps, or what you think about my posts on another forum. Call it a cop out if you want, but until now I have been open to discuss literally any point down to the detail for about the last 8 years straight. But, it always ends to same way, no matter where. The same tired arguments, the same referrals to rank or skill, the same people whos daily routine consists of waking up, joing an xbox party, and talking shit about me and others. The same dude following me to beyond because he just can't help it. The same everything. You can consider this my official resignation from any sort of investment in talking. There are more important things to worry about. 👋

It’s not even personal man, just thought you should know that all the things that you guys preach are non existent on the maps I listed. Legion is the best example of doing so and I continue to stick up for that map. If you guys really want I can get High level play and show you what would happen.  I just don’t want to see you guys spreading false information about how your maps would play without pick ups and what not because it’s just not true. 

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It's funny because I stopped posting here because I was getting annoyed at the pettiness by Nate and gang so you came to Beyond.  I have no interest posting in any forum where ya'll are going to follow us to and regurgitate the same tired arguments that have been beaten down.  You, for the record, were backed into a corner in that 2-hour party chat we had.  You had no leg to stand on by the end except "That's your opinion." That's all you had to say, and everyone in there knew it.  You knew you were as well because you wouldn't even say something as simple as "I don't like the AR because it's too easy to use" because you knew that would defeat your whole argument.  

 

4 hours ago, Box_Hoes said:

I was reading beyond today (some things really don’t change) and something I’ve never really mentioned just to avoid all the drama and arguing but something I feel compelled to state at this point is @MultiLockOn @Westin you state all your maps punish camping and aren’t reliant on pickups to balance them and the devs don’t know what they are doing.
 

However I think oblivion has more problems than lockout (the dead horse meme map) when it comes to lack of approach when you camp a guy light rifle and above chapel, especially when those players have a lead. There is no hard route to any of those positions and nades aren’t enough to clear players out of them. The teleporter puts you in a very predictable spot that’s vulnerable to nades and people having perspective control above. While you might be able to kill them here and there it doesn’t seem to punish players just sitting watching people spawn outside over and over and over and OVERshield is the only thing that helps make that push which spawns outside. 
 

 

We play Oblivion without powerups or power weapons every time for the record.  I haven't played the version with OS in years. 

1: The sightlines in the top labyrinth are tight enough that you have no hope for any team of 2 pushing in at once.

2: You can contest by putting a player on either side, one on the elbow inside the chapel, and one by dropping and porting to pride rock.

3: The rock work in the labrynth is really, really easy to change and I've known that since day 1.  Whatever imbalances exist there I've known could be easily addressed in a real editor, with real assets, and already are addressed in the Unreal version.

 

4 hours ago, Box_Hoes said:

Arcanum is balanced completely by pick ups. Take the pick ups off it and people will hold key and sit on OS the whole game in the lead. There is no reason to move because the enemy team has to make such a committed push that basically keeps the fight geometrically at a near 50/50. There is no way to breach the back of the room at the top of the stairs making it easy to put your backs and stare at the entrances. Thing is, people holding that room have 2 escape routes that put them in a powerful position (top rocket bridge). So even if you manage to breach the room without dying trying to get there, the smart play is for the winning team to run and just milk time and reposition. Because now after all that work it resets and you’re still in the worse position because that team is winning now in red another defensive spot on the map with poor approaches. I’m not even considering the fact that we could take key back into OS after you guys lap around the whole map trying to cut us off only to do it all over again. And splitting on the map is too risky as you can easily just double the one guy since you are in no position to help each other. 

1: You're telling me the OS room is the strongest room, but that also the map is balanced by pickups? The strongest room has OS spawning in it so it's balanced? Are you suggesting damage boost is the counter here? Come on.

2: The only single thing that gives OS room any strength whatsoever is the crystals, which I've said from day 1 I was looking at before we ever played a single game on the map.  If I so much as grabbed those central crystals and raised them like 2 feet you'd have a clear LOS from across the bridge aaaall the way up the stairs to the tele, which would wreck the room.  IF there IS an imbalance, I was aware of it from before we ever played it and decided to leave it because I didn't think it was a big deal, and it was a microscopic edit to fix.  Easily done in, say, Unreal.  But it's not really an issue because the staircase is long enough to the sender node that if someone is weak and tries running there's enough time to catch them as they go up. And it certainly didn't work when Westin and I played you and Nate, so.

3: If they run and port you can lantern jump in the center hallway and there's no way for them to leave that room.

 

Like I said, whatever issue is there I was aware of from day 1, and it was such an easy "fix" to do that I figured it was better to leave it as it is.  And as it is, I think, is still totally fine.

4 hours ago, Box_Hoes said:

Odyssey if you have the lead you can sit bottom and create 50/50 fights potentially 60/40 in your favor as pushing the same door to counter can be more punishing. Star walk has no influence on the bottom making you safe. People have to drop all the way down and there is no catwalk or anything that allows perspective control over the room to counter people sitting. Funny enough an overshield in the well would help fix that problem. 
 

Bottom of the map is a giant open plane with sporadic cover and no possible way to escape.  It's not hard to flush with the smallest amount of coordination. An overshield would do nothing. You don't know what you're talking about. If you're telling me the only problem with Odyssey is a few random floating columns in the basement of the map give too much cover and the map works otherwise than I'd call that a win lmao that's nothing man.

 

Box you guys always talk about how good you are, I've beaten you plenty of times lmao Halo 5 is not a skillful game.  And you are not that good.  Westin is a little better than me, and at best you're a little better than him at Halo 5. If you were to play us in any other game that had less issues than Halo 5, be it CE or Quake or whatever you would get smoked.  I don't care if you're a champ in Halo 5, half the forge community is because they played the Community Slayer playlist with like a 50 person total population, it means nothing to me.  And even if you were that much better, it still wouldn't matter.  I'm perfectly capable of looking at geometry and knowing if it's possible to walk across it, or jump across it, or bounce a grenade on it. Why do you guys always bring this up lmao if I beat you in a random game does that mean you are no longer allowed to have an opinion on it?

 

You know what's even funnier; that Beyond conversation had nothing to do with our maps at all.  It was just a hypothetical design discussion about the merits of using broken pickups to force people to move.  The maps were passively linked in a response to someone who wanted an example.  You guys are so bitter, and butthurt, and petty and still so focused on whatever it is you sit there and stew about that you registered just to argue against us lol.  And then come back here and bring our maps into it again.  Guess what, it wouldn't matter if every single one of my maps were broken in every aspect, the point still stands.  My only single satisfaction and motivation for being there and posting is because I genuinely enjoy teaching and I think a lot of them have a lot to learn.  Plus, you guys aren't there so it's tolerable.  I legit get anxiety whenever there's notifications that one of you posted because I know what it's going to be about, even if I haven't responded in weeks.  Now I get to see that on Beyond as well lol.

 

For the record; if this were my forum I'd permaban you all in a heartbeat.  You're all stewing in your bitterness every day, this discussion has already been settled over Live and none of you had any responses or anything left to say at the end of it.  Your only single motivation is to argue because you're butthurt I called your maps bad because you just sit in corners and punch people. If I'm wrong - make a better map. Prove me wrong, but you won't.  (Don't think I forgot about your attempts at key maps, I saw them.  You just couldn't figure out how to make one properly so you gave up).

 

Bye. I'm not posting anywhere anymore.  Have fun playing Halo.

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