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17 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

It's funny because I stopped posting here because I was getting annoyed at the pettiness by Nate and gang so you came to Beyond.  I have no interest posting in any forum where ya'll are going to follow us to and regurgitate the same tired arguments that have been beaten down.  You, for the record, were backed into a corner in that 2-hour party chat we had.  You had no leg to stand on by the end except "That's your opinion." That's all you had to say, and everyone in there knew it.  You knew you were as well because you wouldn't even say something as simple as "I don't like the AR because it's too easy to use" because you knew that would defeat your whole argument.  

 

We play Oblivion without powerups or power weapons every time for the record.  I haven't played the version with OS in years. 

1: The sightlines in the top labyrinth are tight enough that you have no hope for any team of 2 pushing in at once.

2: You can contest by putting a player on either side, one on the elbow inside the chapel, and one by dropping and porting to pride rock.

3: The rock work in the labrynth is really, really easy to change and I've known that since day 1.  Whatever imbalances exist there I've known could be easily addressed in a real editor, with real assets, and already are addressed in the Unreal version.

 

1: You're telling me the OS room is the strongest room, but that also the map is balanced by pickups? The strongest room has OS spawning in it so it's balanced? Are you suggesting damage boost is the counter here? Come on.

2: The only single thing that gives OS room any strength whatsoever is the crystals, which I've said from day 1 I was looking at before we ever played a single game on the map.  If I so much as grabbed those central crystals and raised them like 2 feet you'd have a clear LOS from across the bridge aaaall the way up the stairs to the tele, which would wreck the room.  IF there IS an imbalance, I was aware of it from before we ever played it and decided to leave it because I didn't think it was a big deal, and it was a microscopic edit to fix.  Easily done in, say, Unreal.  But it's not really an issue because the staircase is long enough to the sender node that if someone is weak and tries running there's enough time to catch them as they go up. And it certainly didn't work when Westin and I played you and Nate, so.

3: If they run and port you can lantern jump in the center hallway and there's no way for them to leave that room.

 

Like I said, whatever issue is there I was aware of from day 1, and it was such an easy "fix" to do that I figured it was better to leave it as it is.  And as it is, I think, is still totally fine.

Bottom of the map is a giant open plane with sporadic cover and no possible way to escape.  It's not hard to flush with the smallest amount of coordination. An overshield would do nothing. You don't know what you're talking about. If you're telling me the only problem with Odyssey is a few random floating columns in the basement of the map give too much cover and the map works otherwise than I'd call that a win lmao that's nothing man.

 

Box you guys always talk about how good you are, I've beaten you plenty of times lmao Halo 5 is not a skillful game.  And you are not that good.  Westin is a little better than me, and at best you're a little better than him at Halo 5. If you were to play us in any other game that had less issues than Halo 5, be it CE or Quake or whatever you would get smoked.  I don't care if you're a champ in Halo 5, half the forge community is because they played the Community Slayer playlist with like a 50 person total population, it means nothing to me.  And even if you were that much better, it still wouldn't matter.  I'm perfectly capable of looking at geometry and knowing if it's possible to walk across it, or jump across it, or bounce a grenade on it. Why do you guys always bring this up lmao if I beat you in a random game does that mean you are no longer allowed to have an opinion on it?

 

You know what's even funnier; that Beyond conversation had nothing to do with our maps at all.  It was just a hypothetical design discussion about the merits of using broken pickups to force people to move.  The maps were passively linked in a response to someone who wanted an example.  You guys are so bitter, and butthurt, and petty and still so focused on whatever it is you sit there and stew about that you registered just to argue against us lol.  And then come back here and bring our maps into it again.  Guess what, it wouldn't matter if every single one of my maps were broken in every aspect, the point still stands.  My only single satisfaction and motivation for being there and posting is because I genuinely enjoy teaching and I think a lot of them have a lot to learn.  Plus, you guys aren't there so it's tolerable.  I legit get anxiety whenever there's notifications that one of you posted because I know what it's going to be about, even if I haven't responded in weeks.  Now I get to see that on Beyond as well lol.

 

For the record; if this were my forum I'd permaban you all in a heartbeat.  You're all stewing in your bitterness every day, this discussion has already been settled over Live and none of you had any responses or anything left to say at the end of it.  Your only single motivation is to argue because you're butthurt I called your maps bad because you just sit in corners and punch people. If I'm wrong - make a better map. Prove me wrong, but you won't.  (Don't think I forgot about your attempts at key maps, I saw them.  You just couldn't figure out how to make one properly so you gave up).

 

Bye. I'm not posting anywhere anymore.  Have fun playing Halo.

The problem on oblivion is how close the teammates in the setup are to each other. Being able to instantly help a 2 man push. Lol if you want to rush 2 hard and die to Nades I can keep picking up in the chapel go ahead. Any split you do on that guy on the top that teammate pride rock is too far to help his teammate stuck in chapel now. 
 

Rockets, with damage boost being the main counter. Key word: rockets. And even if you raised that pillar in os room you have folds in the wall  on that staircase you can block LOS to that bridge and I can force you all the way into the room. Either way you can play keep away with the key in that room or just wait to drag those players all the way there just to port and play cat and mouse. 

Do you know how many pockets you can close LOS off bottom middle. Clearly you didn’t because when salty abused it then you updated the map rounding off some corners. It’s an easy fix for sure but as is id say is an issue. 
 

Lol You haven’t really beaten me that much other than your maps which I find to personally mitigate the skill gap in halo 5. I am leagues above both you and Westin as hard as that might be to comprehend. Halo 5 indeed takes skill and if you ask all the pros they say it’s the highest skill gap halo has had. Stop talking out of your ass. I promise you’ve never played me trying my hardest ( you can call that a cop out LUL). I’m willing to play you on dev maps where I’m willing to bet you guys wouldn’t get more than 10 kills consistently and I’m not exaggerating. Multi you hold forward always then blame that map. That’s why you goosed on dawn of defeat vs me and purely. You don’t think when you play. 
 

Do you know how many pros have been searching 2s lately. Do I need to post pics of me beating Danoxide solo qing. What forgers have their champs? link me id love to know considering most ppl that still play halo 5 are top 1% players. So I would say a champ is pretty good to have. 
 

You get outplayed so hard mentally by geometry that you call it random and that speaks for itself. 
 

I’m not bitter I’m holding your own standards against you since you can’t smell the scent of your own shit. 
 

I think that’s healthy and great you want to teach, maybe you need to learn more though and aren’t as good as you think. 
 

Oh that map that was already made and I threw doors everywhere that I never played? Sick, i knew you couldn’t resist bringing up my maps. And what are you talking about when it comes to corners? 

 

multi neckzilla and I matched you in h2 midship and 25-4 you and given please stop. You say champ is easy but I checked and you’ve never had one. 

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For the record I have fun on your maps. Just know they are balanced through pick ups which is fine. Balance shield of you will 

 

Legion is sick though 

 

I just want to be honest and not beat around the bush man. Those maps will fall apart without pickups 

 

AND again instead of all the hypotheticals I’m willing to put this to rest and show you in game 

Edited by Box_Hoes
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On the one hand, I'm happy that you all take design seriously.  This was what I've always wanted in a forum.

On the other hand, I'm sorry that the differences of opinion between some parties now seem insurmountable.

 

On an entirely different note, @no god anywhere thank you for the suggestion to back up data.  My main hard drive randomly started to show signs of corruption a few weeks ago, and I was able to seamlessly transition over to another one that I'd purchased and saved as a backup as a result of that suggestion.  :classic_biggrin:

 

Anyway, love you all.  :classic_love:

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You're even starting to sound like Nate.  I don't need to really respond to any of that because your tone and insults speak for themselves. You don't care about talking about design or getting better, you are literally just mad.  It's sad because we all used to be friends.

7 minutes ago, Box_Hoes said:

Do you know how many pockets you can close LOS off bottom middle. Clearly you didn’t because when salty abused it then you updated the map rounding off some corners.

Just so everyone knows this Box is making this all up on the spot; I have never once updated Odyssey, or any of my maps for that matter.  They're all first drafts.

 

 

 

Later guys.  Keep an eye out for our game! Or, keep playing Halo forever.

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3 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

You're even starting to sound like Nate.  I don't need to really respond to any of that because your tone and insults speak for themselves. You don't care about talking about design or getting better, you are literally just mad.  It's sad because we all used to be friends.

Just so everyone knows this Box is making this all up on the spot; I have never once updated Odyssey, or any of my maps for that matter.  They're all first drafts.

 

 

 

Later guys.  Keep an eye out for our game! Or, keep playing Halo forever.

Avoid the hard facts like usual 

 

good luck on your game 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

It's funny because I stopped posting here because I was getting annoyed at the pettiness by Nate and gang so you came to Beyond.  I have no interest posting in any forum where ya'll are going to follow us to and regurgitate the same tired arguments that have been beaten down.  You, for the record, were backed into a corner in that 2-hour party chat we had.  You had no leg to stand on by the end except "That's your opinion." That's all you had to say, and everyone in there knew it.  You knew you were as well because you wouldn't even say something as simple as "I don't like the AR because it's too easy to use" because you knew that would defeat your whole argument.  

 

We play Oblivion without powerups or power weapons every time for the record.  I haven't played the version with OS in years. 

1: The sightlines in the top labyrinth are tight enough that you have no hope for any team of 2 pushing in at once.

2: You can contest by putting a player on either side, one on the elbow inside the chapel, and one by dropping and porting to pride rock.

3: The rock work in the labrynth is really, really easy to change and I've known that since day 1.  Whatever imbalances exist there I've known could be easily addressed in a real editor, with real assets, and already are addressed in the Unreal version.

 

1: You're telling me the OS room is the strongest room, but that also the map is balanced by pickups? The strongest room has OS spawning in it so it's balanced? Are you suggesting damage boost is the counter here? Come on.

2: The only single thing that gives OS room any strength whatsoever is the crystals, which I've said from day 1 I was looking at before we ever played a single game on the map.  If I so much as grabbed those central crystals and raised them like 2 feet you'd have a clear LOS from across the bridge aaaall the way up the stairs to the tele, which would wreck the room.  IF there IS an imbalance, I was aware of it from before we ever played it and decided to leave it because I didn't think it was a big deal, and it was a microscopic edit to fix.  Easily done in, say, Unreal.  But it's not really an issue because the staircase is long enough to the sender node that if someone is weak and tries running there's enough time to catch them as they go up. And it certainly didn't work when Westin and I played you and Nate, so.

3: If they run and port you can lantern jump in the center hallway and there's no way for them to leave that room.

 

Like I said, whatever issue is there I was aware of from day 1, and it was such an easy "fix" to do that I figured it was better to leave it as it is.  And as it is, I think, is still totally fine.

Bottom of the map is a giant open plane with sporadic cover and no possible way to escape.  It's not hard to flush with the smallest amount of coordination. An overshield would do nothing. You don't know what you're talking about. If you're telling me the only problem with Odyssey is a few random floating columns in the basement of the map give too much cover and the map works otherwise than I'd call that a win lmao that's nothing man.

 

Box you guys always talk about how good you are, I've beaten you plenty of times lmao Halo 5 is not a skillful game.  And you are not that good.  Westin is a little better than me, and at best you're a little better than him at Halo 5. If you were to play us in any other game that had less issues than Halo 5, be it CE or Quake or whatever you would get smoked.  I don't care if you're a champ in Halo 5, half the forge community is because they played the Community Slayer playlist with like a 50 person total population, it means nothing to me.  And even if you were that much better, it still wouldn't matter.  I'm perfectly capable of looking at geometry and knowing if it's possible to walk across it, or jump across it, or bounce a grenade on it. Why do you guys always bring this up lmao if I beat you in a random game does that mean you are no longer allowed to have an opinion on it?

 

You know what's even funnier; that Beyond conversation had nothing to do with our maps at all.  It was just a hypothetical design discussion about the merits of using broken pickups to force people to move.  The maps were passively linked in a response to someone who wanted an example.  You guys are so bitter, and butthurt, and petty and still so focused on whatever it is you sit there and stew about that you registered just to argue against us lol.  And then come back here and bring our maps into it again.  Guess what, it wouldn't matter if every single one of my maps were broken in every aspect, the point still stands.  My only single satisfaction and motivation for being there and posting is because I genuinely enjoy teaching and I think a lot of them have a lot to learn.  Plus, you guys aren't there so it's tolerable.  I legit get anxiety whenever there's notifications that one of you posted because I know what it's going to be about, even if I haven't responded in weeks.  Now I get to see that on Beyond as well lol.

 

For the record; if this were my forum I'd permaban you all in a heartbeat.  You're all stewing in your bitterness every day, this discussion has already been settled over Live and none of you had any responses or anything left to say at the end of it.  Your only single motivation is to argue because you're butthurt I called your maps bad because you just sit in corners and punch people. If I'm wrong - make a better map. Prove me wrong, but you won't.  (Don't think I forgot about your attempts at key maps, I saw them.  You just couldn't figure out how to make one properly so you gave up).

 

Bye. I'm not posting anywhere anymore.  Have fun playing Halo.

The wise teacher MultiLockOn that wants to spread the good word on how to design maps to the uninformed lmao get over yourself dude. Your a narcissist.

Your AR question had zero relavance to the discussion so I didn't answer it.

 

Nobody has to prove anything too you. Nobody even wants to. I don't give a shit about your tastes and preferences, I never have. 

 

 

 Your not that great at evaluating how your maps play for others besides your own playstyle and perspectives, and your even worse at evaluating how others maps play because you evaluate them through your own limited lense of understanding and skill. 

 

The fact you still think in terms of "better" and don't understand things aren't always "better or worse" but rather different/sideways shows how much lack of understanding and respect for different flavors you actually have. 

 

You took a concept from another game, made an extremely dull 3 lane map with doors and now your the messahi of level design... Cool.  We get it. 

 

What key map did I attempt and fail at?  I entertained the idea of making a map with a time bases pick-up powerup that let you control unique map events (not just open and close doors) but ultimately lost interest because the scripting was obnoxious and it wasn't all that exciting to me. 

 

My motivations for continuing to post in response to your posts are that I hate hearing your self jerking bs being spouted everywhere, it's obnoxious as hell. Everyones wrong but you tho, we get it. Nobody understands how and why your maps work, only you and Westin.

 

 

Hail to the King!  

 

 

 

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A few months ago I asked you guys not to insult each other and to take any beef elsewhere. I also asked that if you were going to discuss old design contentions/controversies you provide photo or video evidence to back it up.
 

So far, no photo or video evidence has been provided in these discussions, and they’ve always devolved into public spitting matches and sustained, veiled ad hominems.


I’m with Chunk - I want to see you guys discuss this stuff at a higher level and am saddened that it’s come to yet another blowup. Moving forward, I’m considering a new policy.

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2 minutes ago, icyhotspartin said:

A few months ago I asked you guys not to insult each other and to take any beef elsewhere. I also asked that if you were going to discuss old design contentions/controversies you provide photo or video evidence to back it up.
 

So far, no photo or video evidence has been provided in these discussions, and they’ve always devolved into public spitting matches and sustained, veiled ad hominems.


I’m with Chunk - I want to see you guys discuss this stuff at a higher level and am saddened that it’s come to yet another blowup. Moving forward, I’m considering a new policy.

I only have access to mobile otherwise I would but I feel like I provided pretty solid examples 

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Can we rename this thread to the fucking "dog house" or something and have a separate thread for legit waywo. I don't want to have to scroll through two pages of gutter oil to see what ppl are actually "working on"? :Mixed_Emotions:

Edited by FatkidForger

FatKid LD > Core LD

 

He hasn't got any faults, but maybe he's not perfect. But he didn't do anything.

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4 minutes ago, FatkidForger said:

Can we rename this thread to the fucking "dog house" or something and have a separate thread for legit waywo. I don't want to have to scroll through two pages of gutter oil to see what ppl are actually "working on"? :Mixed_Emotions:

Sorry man 

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26 minutes ago, Box_Hoes said:

I only have access to mobile otherwise I would but I feel like I provided pretty solid examples 


That may be so. Next time you ought to wait until you have desktop available so you can demonstrate visually, otherwise it’s macaroni sculpture to anyone who doesn’t live and breathe the maps.

 

@FatkidForger I was thinking of naming another one the “DogPile”, but I don’t think I want to facilitate dogging here. That’s what private chats are for.

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2 minutes ago, icyhotspartin said:


That may be so. Next time you ought to wait until you have desktop available so you can demonstrate visually, otherwise it’s macaroni sculpture to anyone who doesn’t live and breathe the maps.

 

@FatkidForger I was thinking of naming another one the “DogPile”, but I don’t think I want to facilitate dogging here. That’s what private chats are for.

At least have it just be "general", cos the majority of stuff posted here ain't waywo.

FatKid LD > Core LD

 

He hasn't got any faults, but maybe he's not perfect. But he didn't do anything.

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1 minute ago, FatkidForger said:

At least have it just be "general", cos the majority of stuff posted here ain't waywo.


yeah, I mean, waywo is waywo, not really what anyone is necessarily working on

I hope for a kind of country club lounge or penthouse lounge atmosphere, but previous iterations have looked more like dive bars and that spirit continues, unfortunately

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Personally, I think I've outgrown all of this. This is supposed to be enjoyment shared with others. You guys treat this like politics where people's philosophies can destroy lives. I don't even enjoy the drama aspect anymore. 

 

@a Chunk I'm glad my plea got through to you. Its still heavy for me to this day. I don't want it to happen to anyone.

 

 

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7 hours ago, icyhotspartin said:


yeah, I mean, waywo is waywo, not really what anyone is necessarily working on

I hope for a kind of country club lounge or penthouse lounge atmosphere, but previous iterations have looked more like dive bars and that spirit continues, unfortunately

i think of waywo being game designs version of the inklings, a bunch of pasionate artists who play alot of games, argue about what they like and dislike, debate philosophy, and get heated at times

1260918535_Forgemapsthumbnail.thumb.png.a0054255c7c5aba3a52c3cef60b4b815.png

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9 hours ago, a Chunk said:

On the one hand, I'm happy that you all take design seriously.  This was what I've always wanted in a forum.

On the other hand, I'm sorry that the differences of opinion between some parties now seem insurmountable.

 

On an entirely different note, @no god anywhere thank you for the suggestion to back up data.  My main hard drive randomly started to show signs of corruption a few weeks ago, and I was able to seamlessly transition over to another one that I'd purchased and saved as a backup as a result of that suggestion.  :classic_biggrin:

 

Anyway, love you all.  :classic_love:

what are your future plans for the site? will you be able to fund design contests at some point?

1260918535_Forgemapsthumbnail.thumb.png.a0054255c7c5aba3a52c3cef60b4b815.png

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5 hours ago, no god anywhere said:

Personally, I think I've outgrown all of this. This is supposed to be enjoyment shared with others. You guys treat this like politics where people's philosophies can destroy lives. I don't even enjoy the drama aspect anymore. 

 

@a Chunk I'm glad my plea got through to you. Its still heavy for me to this day. I don't want it to happen to anyone.

 

 

While I admit things get out of hand, it’s just very frustrating to me when there are geometrical imbalances present unseen by the designer that can break all principles being preached. Then these maps are used as “standards” and talked about as if there are no issues present. That’s just spreading false information about a product which lacks integrity in itself. If I had a PC I would have been glad to take photos to back up my claims and make a more professional post about the whole thing. What I’m talking about isn’t even so much philosophical, it’s just the objective function of geometry in the examples I listed. 
 

IF I were to post visual breakdowns would that be okay at this point in time @icyhotspartin

 

 

Edited by Box_Hoes
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15 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

Just so everyone knows this Box is making this all up on the spot; I have never once updated Odyssey, or any of my maps for that matter.  They're all first drafts.

 

For the record, some of my exploits on the first few playtests of the map did cause multi to make some small edits to the map. He fixed how close you were able to stand next to the sky door skywalk tele exit (so you couldn't beat people down and stand in a super bright emissive light and wreck people) he also made a pocket in the bottom of the map much shallower so players camping down there had a harder time of doing so.  

 

 

This isn't a bad thing. This is good. This doesn't somehow take away from MultiLockOns design skill, it speaks to it.

 

I want to make it clear that adjusting and editing a map after playtesting is often an intergal part of the design process. It shouldn't be shamed, but celebrated. 

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4 hours ago, Box_Hoes said:

While I admit things get out of hand, it’s just very frustrating to me when there are geometrical imbalances present unseen by the designer that can break all principles being preached. Then these maps are used as “standards” and talked about as if there are no issues present. That’s just spreading false information about a product which lacks integrity in itself. If I had a PC I would have been glad to take photos to back up my claims and make a more professional post about the whole thing. What I’m talking about isn’t even so much philosophical, it’s just the objective function of geometry in the examples I listed. 
 

IF I were to post visual breakdowns would that be okay at this point in time @icyhotspartin

 

 


I think it’s the only appropriate way to address the topic, but, again, the pooch has flown the coop on this one. Might as well just reassess the whole thing and take it up privately, if that’s even possible.

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Box that entire conversation on Beyond had NOTHING to do with my maps lmao I didn't mention them once, when someone asked I even linked other people's maps. 

All I wanted to talk about was that you don't need ridiculously overpowered pickups to force movement if your map works.


Lo and behold, I come back here and you're writing novels about my maps lol.  Like stop and actually think about that for a moment. Do you realize how quick ya'll were to go there and fight against the premise, and post here about my maps when that was never once part of the conversation.  You guys need to take some time and self reflect or something.

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