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10 minutes ago, icyhotspartin said:

I read the 


Be more descriptive, I can’t understand what these photos represent.

They represent the multiple blindspots/folds up the ramp leading to the teleporter on arcanum that supposedly don't exist. This is with the crystals removed. 

Edited by SaltyKoalaBear
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So I haven't worked on this in a bit cause I was afraid I was going the wrong directin, well I had to change something.. It was annoying me. Map felt too enclosed and room based, had to open it up more.

 

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Now you can see down to the little jump up. And it also makes that area less of a no mans land, even though there's the exit towards the center spiral.  I think it would be tedious having to CONSTANTLY run along this wall.. plus now we have a cooler LOS... You can get a sick montage clip on someone. Either from tower to here, or from here to the tower. And it's a small window to hit it.

 

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Map releases in 2035 be there

 

 


I def nailed this new chiekn tho

 

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Edited by JB_
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2 hours ago, a Chunk said:

Well, as I think you all know, I welcomed a baby boy into the world a few months ago.  Though it was by no means a surprise, my partner and I had been trying for quite a long while without success, and I wasn't counting on it ever happening.  Given my life situation at the time, I had some time to dedicate to projects like this.  I had many plans to grow the site.  As soon as I found out we had a baby on the way, my priorities instantly changed.  NLD, and anything related to gaming and internet, were deprioritized.  They still are, and I do not see that changing anytime soon.  If I have a choice between sitting in front of my computer or television, or playing on the floor with my little boy, it's an easy freaking choice for me, and one that is not ever going to change.  In fact, I'm typing this out against my better judgement at the moment because I want to explain why I'm mostly inactive, and why it's going to stay that way.

 

To be 100% transparent, I have no plans for the future of the site.  I am happy to keep it up and running.  I'm also happy to support the other staff members in driving/facilitating contests, or any number of other ideas.  And for that matter, I'm happy to help host contests from community members, if there are any interested in running one themselves, and looking for a place to host it.  I still feel invested in the community, and love to see people learn, grow, and share their work.

 

Part of me feels like I owe you guys an apology for not fully following through on the promise I have for the site.  But I can't apologize for prioritizing things in my life in a way that feels appropriate to me, and I'm sure you all can understand that.  I still want NLD to flourish, and think that it can.  I just will not be the one to drive it right now, or for the foreseeable future.  But this is all okay because there are other incredibly capable people that still can make this happen, and I'm eager to lend my support in whatever way I can without infringing on my other priorities.

very understandable, the right choice, family comes first

1260918535_Forgemapsthumbnail.thumb.png.a0054255c7c5aba3a52c3cef60b4b815.png

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Didn't a3LG want a game with a lever action utility weapon a few years back? I feel like that new exotic in destiny 2 (just the hipfire) is quite similar to what he had described, but my memory tends to be fuzzy sometimes, so maybe not

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@Box_Hoes I'm going to address your post now (about my map at least) but I want to say a few things before I do. I know I said I was done posting (and I am) but this has been eating at me, and while it's definitely best I stop posting on any forums, I just needed to say this to have a clear conscience before I do. And, you know what, I've already let the responses on beyond go without any reply from my end, which for me is substantial progress!

 

So first, if you actually read the discussion on beyond, the argument had a clear lineage. To start, I brought up quick camo, then hard way responded to my comment about camo being a dumb powerup, and then we started talking about the viability of camo. A few posts were shot back and forth, whatever, it was all normal stuff. Then, several people on beyond started attributing the one-sided nature of power weapons and powerups as the only reason anyone would ever move in Halo, which is silly, and they were trying to justify pickups with that argument. Regardless of what you think of powerups, I KNOW that even you and Salty disagree with that idea. I know that you know that it's possible to incentivize movement with geometry. So, moving on, at this point beyond started denying any possibility of movement on a map without pickups, and demanded examples of maps in which this design was implemented. Multi replied to that demand with a list of maps that contained none of his own, and while the discussion continued on, this is where you guys come in. It was, and is, painfully obvious that the trejectory and topic of this discussion at this point was about whether or not geometrically incentivized movement is possible. It's not about how well executed, it's not about if the theoretical perfect map exists or if we are its authors, it's about the most basic design question. Keep in mind Box that your most recent level, as your yourself describe, set out to do just that - incentivize movement with geometry. So, we're all in agreement there. It's possible, not just theoretically, but practically, and has been accomplished before. If not perfectly in a map, then perfectly in a given encounter.

 

That brings me to With Love. Box, you even said in your initial post that the gate window is a good counter to that room, but could be forged better to see its contents, and I agree! I could just push the gate back and widen the bars, or reduce the thickness of the wall, or even just fill that little cutout right underneath it so people couldn't hide under it. Whether or not it's perfectly forged is of almost no importance in the discussion we were having. You admitted that it was a counter, and thereby admitted that counters are possible. To drive the point hom even more, for my map, just for a fun, I made a video. You can most definitely counter that room. But, wait! Before you watch, know that I agree about what you said regarding the bars. And, even though you can flush the room, I agree that it is the clear place to be, and I dislike that just as much as I say I do. I'm not giving myself a free pass, and this is the exact reason that I have never, not even once, listed my own maps as perfect examples of design, which you guys seem to routinly forget. I think I'm already a much better designer than when I made that map, (and I'm excited to show that off to everyone), but untill then, here's a video to sort of demostrate that I at least tried to intentionally balance the room. The intentionality is important, because even if it's not executed to a perfect degree, it proves that geometrical counterplay is possible, and that pickups are not the only way to create movement. And, remember! That was the entire point of the discussion which you replied to. So, enjoy this for what it is.

 

 

So, naturally, the next question when we are presented with all of this is... why? Why, after 4 years, are you still bringing up Arcanum when it wasn't even mentioned in the discussion? Why are you follwing us to other forums, reading our posts, and then replying to them here? Why do you allow us to live in your head rent free, when you profess to not care what we think? Why are you intentionally missing the point by bringing up specific encounters in our maps when you KNOW that movement from geometry is not only possible, but present in those maps? The only conclusion that I am left with is an obvious one. Salty hates us, the more you hang out with him the more that resentment has transfered to you, and now you both have one clear goal in mind. Make these guys you dislike look bad any way you can. Make us look wrong, call us hypocrites, even question our Christianity, pour over our maps and bring them up over and over, no matter the topic of discussion. You really can't deny this, because this is a public forum. Your anger has been put on display for the past two years straight, and even the most objective people here are getting sick and tired of your relentless hatred for those who disagree with you.

 

But, with that, I'm done being upset about it. I've never had any individual in my life latch onto the things I say to this degree, or just harbor so much bitterness towards me. Well, maybe purely, but he's always been hesitant to actually say what he thinks, and I can handle the rare subpost or two. You know him better so you probably know what he actually thinks. But, someone who so openly is against me and my freinds as people is a completely new experience for me, and I've handled it poorly. I should've stopped posting that first day that Salty started coming at me, or when he tried sabotaging my map in the contest, or when I heard rumors of all the trashtalk, or when we apologized to eachother on discord and the next day he was back at it, or when... you get it. I let the anger get to me, and make me agry too, but I won't let that continue. I can't. I suggest that you distance yourself from all of this too, because I am seeing that same resentment form in you, that same anger I had. I know that this post will be discussed whenever you guys next talk, and I know it'll be brushed off as just another elitist propaganda piece, but I really mean it Box, this isn't good for any of us, and i really hope and pray you consider what I've said. If you want us to reflect on design philosophy, if you want us to practice what we preach, then please join us, and reflect on yourself. Consider where this entire argument that has ended in vitriolic insults came from.

 

To end, our game is further along than I ever imagined it would be, and I'm excited to show you all one day, hopefully sooner rather than later. Congrats again on the family @a Chunk Peace, love, and RIP THC!

 

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20 minutes ago, Westin said:

@Box_Hoes I'm going to address your post now (about my map at least) but I want to say a few things before I do. I know I said I was done posting (and I am) but this has been eating at me, and while it's definitely best I stop posting on any forums, I just needed to say this to have a clear conscience before I do. And, you know what, I've already let the responses on beyond go without any reply from my end, which for me is substantial progress!

 

So first, if you actually read the discussion on beyond, the argument had a clear lineage. To start, I brought up quick camo, then hard way responded to my comment about camo being a dumb powerup, and then we started talking about the viability of camo. A few posts were shot back and forth, whatever, it was all normal stuff. Then, several people on beyond started attributing the one-sided nature of power weapons and powerups as the only reason anyone would ever move in Halo, which is silly, and they were trying to justify pickups with that argument. Regardless of what you think of powerups, I KNOW that even you and Salty disagree with that idea. I know that you know that it's possible to incentivize movement with geometry. So, moving on, at this point beyond started denying any possibility of movement on a map without pickups, and demanded examples of maps in which this design was implemented. Multi replied to that demand with a list of maps that contained none of his own, and while the discussion continued on, this is where you guys come in. It was, and is, painfully obvious that the trejectory and topic of this discussion at this point was about whether or not geometrically incentivized movement is possible. It's not about how well executed, it's not about if the theoretical perfect map exists or if we are its authors, it's about the most basic design question. Keep in mind Box that your most recent level, as your yourself describe, set out to do just that - incentivize movement with geometry. So, we're all in agreement there. It's possible, not just theoretically, but practically, and has been accomplished before. If not perfectly in a map, then perfectly in a given encounter.

 

That brings me to With Love. Box, you even said in your initial post that the gate window is a good counter to that room, but could be forged better to see its contents, and I agree! I could just push the gate back and widen the bars, or reduce the thickness of the wall, or even just fill that little cutout right underneath it so people couldn't hide under it. Whether or not it's perfectly forged is of almost no importance in the discussion we were having. You admitted that it was a counter, and thereby admitted that counters are possible. To drive the point hom even more, for my map, just for a fun, I made a video. You can most definitely counter that room. But, wait! Before you watch, know that I agree about what you said regarding the bars. And, even though you can flush the room, I agree that it is the clear place to be, and I dislike that just as much as I say I do. I'm not giving myself a free pass, and this is the exact reason that I have never, not even once, listed my own maps as perfect examples of design, which you guys seem to routinly forget. I think I'm already a much better designer than when I made that map, (and I'm excited to show that off to everyone), but untill then, here's a video to sort of demostrate that I at least tried to intentionally balance the room. The intentionality is important, because even if it's not executed to a perfect degree, it proves that geometrical counterplay is possible, and that pickups are not the only way to create movement. And, remember! That was the entire point of the discussion which you replied to. So, enjoy this for what it is.

 

 

So, naturally, the next question when we are presented with all of this is... why? Why, after 4 years, are you still bringing up Arcanum when it wasn't even mentioned in the discussion? Why are you follwing us to other forums, reading our posts, and then replying to them here? Why do you allow us to live in your head rent free, when you profess to not care what we think? Why are you intentionally missing the point by bringing up specific encounters in our maps when you KNOW that movement from geometry is not only possible, but present in those maps? The only conclusion that I am left with is an obvious one. Salty hates us, the more you hang out with him the more that resentment has transfered to you, and now you both have one clear goal in mind. Make these guys you dislike look bad any way you can. Make us look wrong, call us hypocrites, even question our Christianity, pour over our maps and bring them up over and over, no matter the topic of discussion. You really can't deny this, because this is a public forum. Your anger has been put on display for the past two years straight, and even the most objective people here are getting sick and tired of your relentless hatred for those who disagree with you.

 

But, with that, I'm done being upset about it. I've never had any individual in my life latch onto the things I say to this degree, or just harbor so much bitterness towards me. Well, maybe purely, but he's always been hesitant to actually say what he thinks, and I can handle the rare subpost or two. You know him better so you probably know what he actually thinks. But, someone who so openly is against me and my freinds as people is a completely new experience for me, and I've handled it poorly. I should've stopped posting that first day that Salty started coming at me, or when he tried sabotaging my map in the contest, or when I heard rumors of all the trashtalk, or when we apologized to eachother on discord and the next day he was back at it, or when... you get it. I let the anger get to me, and make me agry too, but I won't let that continue. I can't. I suggest that you distance yourself from all of this too, because I am seeing that same resentment form in you, that same anger I had. I know that this post will be discussed whenever you guys next talk, and I know it'll be brushed off as just another elitist propaganda piece, but I really mean it Box, this isn't good for any of us, and i really hope and pray you consider what I've said. If you want us to reflect on design philosophy, if you want us to practice what we preach, then please join us, and reflect on yourself. Consider where this entire argument that has ended in vitriolic insults came from.

 

To end, our game is further along than I ever imagined it would be, and I'm excited to show you all one day, hopefully sooner rather than later. Congrats again on the family @a Chunk Peace, love, and RIP THC!

 

Epic post, I only have access to mobile currently and am too busy to make a post right now but will get back later to you 

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4 hours ago, Westin said:

@Box_Hoes I'm going to address your post now (about my map at least) but I want to say a few things before I do. I know I said I was done posting (and I am) but this has been eating at me, and while it's definitely best I stop posting on any forums, I just needed to say this to have a clear conscience before I do. And, you know what, I've already let the responses on beyond go without any reply from my end, which for me is substantial progress!

 

So first, if you actually read the discussion on beyond, the argument had a clear lineage. To start, I brought up quick camo, then hard way responded to my comment about camo being a dumb powerup, and then we started talking about the viability of camo. A few posts were shot back and forth, whatever, it was all normal stuff. Then, several people on beyond started attributing the one-sided nature of power weapons and powerups as the only reason anyone would ever move in Halo, which is silly, and they were trying to justify pickups with that argument. Regardless of what you think of powerups, I KNOW that even you and Salty disagree with that idea. I know that you know that it's possible to incentivize movement with geometry. So, moving on, at this point beyond started denying any possibility of movement on a map without pickups, and demanded examples of maps in which this design was implemented. Multi replied to that demand with a list of maps that contained none of his own, and while the discussion continued on, this is where you guys come in. It was, and is, painfully obvious that the trejectory and topic of this discussion at this point was about whether or not geometrically incentivized movement is possible. It's not about how well executed, it's not about if the theoretical perfect map exists or if we are its authors, it's about the most basic design question. Keep in mind Box that your most recent level, as your yourself describe, set out to do just that - incentivize movement with geometry. So, we're all in agreement there. It's possible, not just theoretically, but practically, and has been accomplished before. If not perfectly in a map, then perfectly in a given encounter.

 

That brings me to With Love. Box, you even said in your initial post that the gate window is a good counter to that room, but could be forged better to see its contents, and I agree! I could just push the gate back and widen the bars, or reduce the thickness of the wall, or even just fill that little cutout right underneath it so people couldn't hide under it. Whether or not it's perfectly forged is of almost no importance in the discussion we were having. You admitted that it was a counter, and thereby admitted that counters are possible. To drive the point hom even more, for my map, just for a fun, I made a video. You can most definitely counter that room. But, wait! Before you watch, know that I agree about what you said regarding the bars. And, even though you can flush the room, I agree that it is the clear place to be, and I dislike that just as much as I say I do. I'm not giving myself a free pass, and this is the exact reason that I have never, not even once, listed my own maps as perfect examples of design, which you guys seem to routinly forget. I think I'm already a much better designer than when I made that map, (and I'm excited to show that off to everyone), but untill then, here's a video to sort of demostrate that I at least tried to intentionally balance the room. The intentionality is important, because even if it's not executed to a perfect degree, it proves that geometrical counterplay is possible, and that pickups are not the only way to create movement. And, remember! That was the entire point of the discussion which you replied to. So, enjoy this for what it is.

 

 

So, naturally, the next question when we are presented with all of this is... why? Why, after 4 years, are you still bringing up Arcanum when it wasn't even mentioned in the discussion? Why are you follwing us to other forums, reading our posts, and then replying to them here? Why do you allow us to live in your head rent free, when you profess to not care what we think? Why are you intentionally missing the point by bringing up specific encounters in our maps when you KNOW that movement from geometry is not only possible, but present in those maps? The only conclusion that I am left with is an obvious one. Salty hates us, the more you hang out with him the more that resentment has transfered to you, and now you both have one clear goal in mind. Make these guys you dislike look bad any way you can. Make us look wrong, call us hypocrites, even question our Christianity, pour over our maps and bring them up over and over, no matter the topic of discussion. You really can't deny this, because this is a public forum. Your anger has been put on display for the past two years straight, and even the most objective people here are getting sick and tired of your relentless hatred for those who disagree with you.

 

But, with that, I'm done being upset about it. I've never had any individual in my life latch onto the things I say to this degree, or just harbor so much bitterness towards me. Well, maybe purely, but he's always been hesitant to actually say what he thinks, and I can handle the rare subpost or two. You know him better so you probably know what he actually thinks. But, someone who so openly is against me and my freinds as people is a completely new experience for me, and I've handled it poorly. I should've stopped posting that first day that Salty started coming at me, or when he tried sabotaging my map in the contest, or when I heard rumors of all the trashtalk, or when we apologized to eachother on discord and the next day he was back at it, or when... you get it. I let the anger get to me, and make me agry too, but I won't let that continue. I can't. I suggest that you distance yourself from all of this too, because I am seeing that same resentment form in you, that same anger I had. I know that this post will be discussed whenever you guys next talk, and I know it'll be brushed off as just another elitist propaganda piece, but I really mean it Box, this isn't good for any of us, and i really hope and pray you consider what I've said. If you want us to reflect on design philosophy, if you want us to practice what we preach, then please join us, and reflect on yourself. Consider where this entire argument that has ended in vitriolic insults came from.

 

To end, our game is further along than I ever imagined it would be, and I'm excited to show you all one day, hopefully sooner rather than later. Congrats again on the family @a Chunk Peace, love, and RIP THC!

 

I think you just take criticism poorly, or as hate.  Not all oposstion is hate. If your vocal about design and have publicly voiced your desire to forge or design competitively or be the "best at level design" people are going to challenge your ideas.  Box is just now beginning to look at maps with a more critical eye and he is realizing how poorly designed (According to you and mulits own philosophies)  some of your maps are according to how he understands to play them. I'm not driving any of this. In fact, I've told box to make sure to not make anything personal if he wishes to talk about your maps now because A) You all don't take criticism well.  B) You are invested in the game your working on and could care less about Halo 5 designs at this point in it's life span. 

 

Your not a victim, your just a topic of conversation because you've made yourself one by putting your ideas/philosophies into  the public space/eye. 

 

Honestly can't wait for y'alls game. It's gonna be hype, and a beautiful product with a unique identity. Stop worrying about the forums so much and what we think. We don't hate you, we just think your not as intelligent and knowledgeable on design as you've claimed to be/ portray yourself as.  Prove us wrong with your game. 

 

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1 hour ago, SaltyKoalaBear said:

I think you just take criticism poorly, or as hate.  Not all oposstion is hate. If your vocal about design and have publicly voiced your desire to forge or design competitively or be the "best at level design" people are going to challenge your ideas.  Box is just now beginning to look at maps with a more critical eye and he is realizing how poorly designed (According to you and mulits own philosophies)  some of your maps are according to how he understands to play them. I'm not driving any of this. In fact, I've told box to make sure to not make anything personal if he wishes to talk about your maps now because A) You all don't take criticism well.  B) You are invested in the game your working on and could care less about Halo 5 designs at this point in it's life span. 

 

Your not a victim, your just a topic of conversation because you've made yourself one by putting your ideas/philosophies into  the public space/eye. 

 

Honestly can't wait for y'alls game. It's gonna be hype, and a beautiful product with a unique identity. Stop worrying about the forums so much and what we think. We don't hate you, we just think your not as intelligent and knowledgeable on design as you've claimed to be/ portray yourself as.  Prove us wrong with your game. 

 

See, you can be all reasonable when it fits the theme of the day, but this isn't how you've treated us at all. Everyone here has been a witness to how obnoxious and obsessive you are, especially regarding Christian, and not but one page ago you filled this website with insults. My only real consolation is that everyone got to see it play out, and see your true nature, because you are apparently incapable of admitting anything.

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I’m just going to mainly keep it about the map or maps which is all it really comes down to for me. I have definitely been super forgiving with maps before when critiquing/evaluating them. If I had this mentality and knowledge I do know this wouldn’t be brought up years later. If you give a troll an inch he will take a mile. I know how much you guys hate corners/camping and want it to be punished. At the end of the day I agree when it comes to my own preferences in how I want my maps to work. 
 

Before I get started I want to state that with love is by far the weakest of the maps I listed and is definitely miles above the others I listed when it comes to potential movement/pacing/approachability issues. (With no pick ups.) I’m glad you said that you don’t like the tower being the spot people end up going to a lot. It is most definitely capable of being flushed out. But what are your odds if choosing to stay there vs going to actively seek engagement? From my own lens, I personally see it’s asking the players to do a lot who are trying to break the tower setup, especially if the players in the tower are winning. This is me trying to understand the whole justice (you get what you earn) mentality. All the counters in your video were great, I didn’t even know you could use that rock by the gate as a ramp because it doesn’t look that well Telegraphed to me. Splitting is always nice to break set ups, but how are you getting into those positions in the first place is a very important question to ask/ let alone the risk of splitting. Especially the one that breaches the door at the top that overlooks the water (white door). As much leverage as you have on peaking in and staging that room getting there is not the easiest. The tower has complete perspective control on that ramp to where if you’re caught using that rock ramp you’re a sitting duck and forced to win the fight. Unless you go allll the way up that rock I saw a little fold you can tuck behind which I’m not sure is intended as it wasn’t in the video counter. Regardless to all hypothetical things happening, I’ll agree it’s super easy to tweak and make counters more exaggerated and what not, but AS IS the POTENTIAL for certain things to arise is present and that’s the point I’m trying to make with these maps. Is the map a prototype or a finished product? If I launched a rocket prototype into space with people and it exploded, I wouldn’t say oh it was a couple easy fixes that I knew about. Silly but the integrity of its purpose was not reached. 
 

Mobile is super obnoxious as this doesn’t seem well structured but I’m going to keep going. Back to my point about sitting top tower in the lead (hypothetically.) For someone who wants to mitigate the possibility for players to succeed while camping it doesn’t seem undesirable enough geometrically to want to move out of the tower. I find when the players are pushed back into the tower and both players enter after successfully pushing the tower geometrical odds are still near 50/50. I think fundamentally speaking this percentage needs to be larger in order for players in the tower to feel at threat sitting. If the players chooses to sit they are RISKING a more challenging  encounter by doing “nothing.” To me that seems JUST for this type of philosophy and to always be INCENTIVIZING movement. 
 

I talked about this before but a method time bombing is an excellent solution to something like this. Basically players sitting in a potentially powerful/place to camp don’t have LOS to an exaggerated counter that is above 50/50 even 60/40 fight. Sitting they risk a potential 80/20 fight or even 90/10 if they choose to sit, which is punishing camping which is the goal to

all of this. You can say that forces a certain play style but when trying to prove it’s possible for movement to be incentivized through geometry alone I see that as a clear way to communicate it’s possible. They have to move to obtain that information and contest the counter, which is actively seeking that engagement. To me the maps I listed are not BOLD enough when it comes to communicating these ideas. Camping is not punished heavily enough, which leads to people getting comfortable. If the game is 24-23 on with love and two people are winning in that tower im sure the game will end in the tower as is. The risk is

much higher contesting the atrium then playing it safer in the room. Now Imagine a more drastic counter they can’t see coming their way because they are in corners crouching not actively seeking engagement. The whole dynamic changes in that situation as they will have to come out contest that area and movement will be inevitable.  

I really like the window counter on with love but being able to challenge from inside to outside I think is helping the tower too much. I think that window should belong strictly to outside and flush every angle out of that room with the ability to challenge consistently at will with perspective control. That window should have the power of something more along the lines of a 70/30 or 80/20 to me personally if you want to communicate mitigating camping and not being successful. I don’t think you should be able to access the roof where that window is so easily from the tower as well making it harder to get there and forcing you to give up the tower to get back to that spot. More cycling through the map. I made a couple examples of things that would punish the possibility of sitting in that tower. There is a bunch of things you could do but im trying to just illustrate my point visually. 


 

I don’t really have any interest talking about the rest of your post. I’m not actually that mad like you think it’s simply not sure. All of my energy is towards the map itself and how it speaks geometrically. Like salty said you two are the most vocal of this community and make videos bashing lockout and preach what you think is good philosophy so of course your maps will be looked at with with a harsher lense. And when people find things that potentially don’t align with with you preach it should be addressed. It’s just discussion for everyone to see and learn from. You guys have said yourself to never take feedback personally. When I say I think oblivion is harder to approach than lockout I’m not talking out of my ass. I legitimately think the map is broken and want to discuss design about it. I’m not attacking you guys, can’t we just talk about maps and what they are doing objectively utilizing the geometry given. For the record multi did include his maps in his post on beyond. I don’t want people going on oblivion and just believing it preaches all these things about not using picking ups to promote movement because it’s actually not true and the winning set up on the map is completely unjust and can be proved objectively. Im not attacking him it’s just debate/opposition. The videos will Be up soon for what I made on with love.


 

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