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I've never really said this until now, but the moment a conversation gets to a point where someones map or arguement is severely questioned to the point of losing legitimacy, someone's gonna stop responding or give a cop out reply to escape. 

 

It wasn't the first instance, but with the last arcanum discussion, that's when I decided these discussions are pointless and i no longer can hold certain people to any regard as designers. Mutual respect for people and friends sharing a passion, sure, but there are certain people that have others fooled. 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, no god anywhere said:

I've never really said this until now, but the moment a conversation gets to a point where someones map or arguement is severely questioned to the point of losing legitimacy, someone's gonna stop responding or give a cop out reply to escape. 

 

It wasn't the first instance, but with the last arcanum discussion, that's when I decided these discussions are pointless and i no longer can hold certain people to any regard as designers. Mutual respect for people and friends sharing a passion, sure, but there are certain people that have others fooled. 

 

 

 

 

I think others just might actually care more than you/ have a greater passion 

 

If I were to ever preach or talk about any of my maps upholding certain gameplays loops or philosophies (which I might do for my new one) I would hope someone is willing to challenge my logic and potentially find things maybe I wasn’t able to see myself. It would create discussion for people to observe and learn from and chime in their own thoughts. No matter right or wrong, it makes you think deeper about these things.
 

Yeah we are far past that opportunity and I wish I’d taken the route in my recent posts long ago. No it’s not healthy. But my viewpoint still stands. I’ll go back to being quiet about it 

Edited by Box_Hoes
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8 hours ago, no god anywhere said:

I've never really said this until now, but the moment a conversation gets to a point where someones map or arguement is severely questioned to the point of losing legitimacy, someone's gonna stop responding or give a cop out reply to escape. 

 

It wasn't the first instance, but with the last arcanum discussion, that's when I decided these discussions are pointless and i no longer can hold certain people to any regard as designers. Mutual respect for people and friends sharing a passion, sure, but there are certain people that have others fooled. 

 

 

 

 

I largely agree with the sentiment and this is why I've kept out of this discussion (outside of it simply just not being my place to say anything tbh). But these conversations are still very important to some and not only in order to tackle logical flaws in our execution but also to ground each other in a base discussion. I've had issues with feedback in the past for sure. But now I know what I want out of a map and my objective is to make sure that it provides the best experience possible to players, end of. If someone comes out and expresses how mechanically flawed an aspect of my design is, although it might hurt because I've put so much time into it, it's my duty to hear them out and consider whats being said for the greater good when it comes to quality of life. I think your last two sentences are a tad dramatic and reactionary, especially vague. I don't want to make an antagonist out of anyone in here, that's super counterintuitive. We're all just a bunch of guys with different outlooks. The first step to solving this is to understand each other.

 

But now while I'm typing, I think it might be best to share my thoughts overall. I might take the time to address key people too, but I'd like to just say that I respect everyone in here as outstanding level designers, some of the greatest minds I've ever had the privilege to be around regarding our specialism. The fact that these great minds can't actually talk to each other without causing distress, however is one of the most disappointing problems at hand.

 

The first thing I'd like to note, given that I spend time with half of the group here and I mostly understand their perspective, is that there is really no need for hostility.

 

@Box_Hoes As I've said this so many times in the past week, I truly do understand your animosity. However, there are so many ways you can approach a discussion that going full force out of nowhere is not one I believe to be valid in this instance. I agree with what you say and I think your points need to be heard for sure. I just wish you could express it without the sheer amount of harsh, bitter taste behind it. If you really want to have a positive impact on the community and help spread a truth, please do it while also setting a good example of how to act.

 

@Westin @MultiLockOn I respect how uncomfortable it is to seemingly be "attacked" out of nowhere and being questioned on your process at such a personal level is tough. The time and effort you guys spend on your maps is so much longer and deeper than I think I'll ever manage so I can only imagine how hurtful it must seem to have their integrity challenged. But responding to this in such a flippant passive aggressive way is not the solution. Again, its super annoying, but just trying to reach out and understand the other perspective, checking yourself and most importantly, not fuelling the flames of conflict is so important to a potentially volatile discussion. The best thing right now to take away is self-reflection, if you read what others say and you know your immediate response is gonna be a heated one, just take a day or two to really consider what they're saying. That way, if you believe your original assessment is still true, you can at least approach it in a way where you've had chance to cool off. Theres no need to quit a forum or anything so dramatic, you guys still have so much to add.

 

We're all human and I've seen so much needless conflict regarding forge ld. I believe a lot would say its just part of the culture but then, how come some of us don't react like this that have been here just as long? I genuinely believe there are those caught up in a certain way of acting and reacting that they really need to take a moment to consider how immature this all comes across, this isn't reddit or waypoint ffs, so why does it look like it?

 

I've had my own examples of reactionary dismissal and hate, but I understand how nonessential it is to the grand scheme of things and is only ever going to hold me back. I'd really like everyone to actually consider what I'm saying. I came from place of ego and self-assuredness so I know what its like and theres truly no need for it here.

 

I honestly am so grateful for the lessons I've learnt from all of you. Be the ascended designers you are, just do it in a respectful way, please, lol. 🙂

Edited by FatkidForger

FatKid LD > Core LD

 

He hasn't got any faults, but maybe he's not perfect. But he didn't do anything.

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2 hours ago, FatkidForger said:

I largely agree with the sentiment and this is why I've kept out of this discussion (outside of it simply just not being my place to say anything tbh). But these conversations are still very important to some and not only in order to tackle logical flaws in our execution but also to ground each other in a base discussion. I've had issues with feedback in the past for sure. But now I know what I want out of a map and my objective is to make sure that it provides the best experience possible to players, end of. If someone comes out and expresses how mechanically flawed an aspect of my design is, although it might hurt because I've put so much time into it, it's my duty to hear them out and consider whats being said for the greater good when it comes to quality of life. I think your last two sentences are a tad dramatic and reactionary, especially vague. I don't want to make an antagonist out of anyone in here, that's super counterintuitive. We're all just a bunch of guys with different outlooks. The first step to solving this is to understand each other.

 

But now while I'm typing, I think it might be best to share my thoughts overall. I might take the time to address key people too, but I'd like to just say that I respect everyone in here as outstanding level designers, some of the greatest minds I've ever had the privilege to be around regarding our specialism. The fact that these great minds can't actually talk to each other without causing distress, however is one of the most disappointing problems at hand.

 

The first thing I'd like to note, given that I spend time with half of the group here and I mostly understand their perspective, is that there is really no need for hostility.

 

@Box_Hoes As I've said this so many times in the past week, I truly do understand your animosity. However, there are so many ways you can approach a discussion that going full force out of nowhere is not one I believe to be valid in this instance. I agree with what you say and I think your points need to be heard for sure. I just wish you could express it without the sheer amount of harsh, bitter taste behind it. If you really want to have a positive impact on the community and help spread a truth, please do it while also setting a good example of how to act.

 

@Westin @MultiLockOn I respect how uncomfortable it is to seemingly be "attacked" out of nowhere and being questioned on your process at such a personal level is tough. The time and effort you guys spend on your maps is so much longer and deeper than I think I'll ever manage so I can only imagine how hurtful it must seem to have their integrity challenged. But responding to this in such a flippant passive aggressive way is not the solution. Again, its super annoying, but just trying to reach out and understand the other perspective, checking yourself and most importantly, not fuelling the flames of conflict is so important to a potentially volatile discussion. The best thing right now to take away is self-reflection, if you read what others say and you know your immediate response is gonna be a heated one, just take a day or two to really consider what they're saying. That way, if you believe your original assessment is still true, you can at least approach it in a way where you've had chance to cool off. Theres no need to quit a forum or anything so dramatic, you guys still have so much to add.

 

We're all human and I've seen so much needless conflict regarding forge ld. I believe a lot would say its just part of the culture but then, how come some of us don't react like this that have been here just as long? I genuinely believe there are those caught up in a certain way of acting and reacting that they really need to take a moment to consider how immature this all comes across, this isn't reddit or waypoint ffs, so why does it look like it?

 

I've had my own examples of reactionary dismissal and hate, but I understand how nonessential it is to the grand scheme of things and is only ever going to hold me back. I'd really like everyone to actually consider what I'm saying. I came from place of ego and self-assuredness so I know what its like and theres truly no need for it here.

 

I honestly am so grateful for the lessons I've learnt from all of you. Be the ascended designers you are, just do it in a respectful way, please, lol. 🙂

Dude shut the fuck up

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13 hours ago, FatkidForger said:

I largely agree with the sentiment and this is why I've kept out of this discussion (outside of it simply just not being my place to say anything tbh). But these conversations are still very important to some and not only in order to tackle logical flaws in our execution but also to ground each other in a base discussion. I've had issues with feedback in the past for sure. But now I know what I want out of a map and my objective is to make sure that it provides the best experience possible to players, end of. If someone comes out and expresses how mechanically flawed an aspect of my design is, although it might hurt because I've put so much time into it, it's my duty to hear them out and consider whats being said for the greater good when it comes to quality of life. I think your last two sentences are a tad dramatic and reactionary, especially vague. I don't want to make an antagonist out of anyone in here, that's super counterintuitive. We're all just a bunch of guys with different outlooks. The first step to solving this is to understand each other.

 

But now while I'm typing, I think it might be best to share my thoughts overall. I might take the time to address key people too, but I'd like to just say that I respect everyone in here as outstanding level designers, some of the greatest minds I've ever had the privilege to be around regarding our specialism. The fact that these great minds can't actually talk to each other without causing distress, however is one of the most disappointing problems at hand.

 

The first thing I'd like to note, given that I spend time with half of the group here and I mostly understand their perspective, is that there is really no need for hostility.

 

@Box_Hoes As I've said this so many times in the past week, I truly do understand your animosity. However, there are so many ways you can approach a discussion that going full force out of nowhere is not one I believe to be valid in this instance. I agree with what you say and I think your points need to be heard for sure. I just wish you could express it without the sheer amount of harsh, bitter taste behind it. If you really want to have a positive impact on the community and help spread a truth, please do it while also setting a good example of how to act.

 

@Westin @MultiLockOn I respect how uncomfortable it is to seemingly be "attacked" out of nowhere and being questioned on your process at such a personal level is tough. The time and effort you guys spend on your maps is so much longer and deeper than I think I'll ever manage so I can only imagine how hurtful it must seem to have their integrity challenged. But responding to this in such a flippant passive aggressive way is not the solution. Again, its super annoying, but just trying to reach out and understand the other perspective, checking yourself and most importantly, not fuelling the flames of conflict is so important to a potentially volatile discussion. The best thing right now to take away is self-reflection, if you read what others say and you know your immediate response is gonna be a heated one, just take a day or two to really consider what they're saying. That way, if you believe your original assessment is still true, you can at least approach it in a way where you've had chance to cool off. Theres no need to quit a forum or anything so dramatic, you guys still have so much to add.

 

We're all human and I've seen so much needless conflict regarding forge ld. I believe a lot would say its just part of the culture but then, how come some of us don't react like this that have been here just as long? I genuinely believe there are those caught up in a certain way of acting and reacting that they really need to take a moment to consider how immature this all comes across, this isn't reddit or waypoint ffs, so why does it look like it?

 

I've had my own examples of reactionary dismissal and hate, but I understand how nonessential it is to the grand scheme of things and is only ever going to hold me back. I'd really like everyone to actually consider what I'm saying. I came from place of ego and self-assuredness so I know what its like and theres truly no need for it here.

 

I honestly am so grateful for the lessons I've learnt from all of you. Be the ascended designers you are, just do it in a respectful way, please, lol. 🙂

Clowns make me wanna clown. It's a bad trait I know, gonna try to avoid it in future. I will say that It's not a coincidence  Ive only had a problem with a select few in the community. Some people's viewpoints and philosophies are just suffocating towards creative growth and diversity, and I'm always going to oppose that type of thinking agressively....  even if I make a fool out of myself doing so. Its so curious to me that  those who want to teach and preach often have the most to learn themselves. 

 

 

Edited by SaltyKoalaBear
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1 hour ago, Soldat Du Christ said:

i never even knew this was a thing, what the freaking heck, im so glad this never became the meta

 

 

OMfg theyre sooo fun, not ez.

 

GiganticLeafyGoldeneye-size_restricted.g

 

OrganicRadiantDuiker-size_restricted.gif

 

and theyre sick cause you cant do em everywhere like CLAMBER

Edited by JB_
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1 hour ago, Soldat Du Christ said:

i never even knew this was a thing, what the freaking heck, im so glad this never became the meta

 

 

Literally was one of the most important things on guardian. G1-G2 and S1-S2 were both used all the time because one allowed you to avoid los going from bottom to top and the other allowed to players to pinch the sniper tower quickly from bottom mid. The one in cuts on the Pit was used a shit ton as well. Beyond that I don't think there were too many being used in high level play back then. Probably because there weren't as many of them discovered at that point and map pool. @JB_ you were a high level player back then how many different ghost jumps were used back then?

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49 minutes ago, purely fat said:

Literally was one of the most important things on guardian. G1-G2 and S1-S2 were both used all the time because one allowed you to avoid los going from bottom to top and the other allowed to players to pinch the sniper tower quickly from bottom mid. The one in cuts on the Pit was used a shit ton as well. Beyond that I don't think there were too many being used in high level play back then. Probably because there weren't as many of them discovered at that point and map pool. @JB_ you were a high level player back then how many different ghost jumps were used back then?

none of the ones you mentioned are ghost jumps sadly. And really NO one uses ghost jumps in MLG. They're not very practical and aren't in any good spots, amplified probably has the best and most useful ones. Guardian has a few but they're all deadly since you have to jump off railings to get to them (death).

 

This one is super useful on guardian but almost impossible

 

 

Construct has that one I linked, (not useful) Heretic has virtually none. Onslaught has one in the center to get to top middle but it's a super low ghost jump and fucks up everything you know about ghost jumping since you have to trigger it earlier than any other ghost jump ever.


The only (useful) ghost jump pit is on sniper tower and even then I dont think it's a ghost jump. I think he's crouching in between the geo and getting a jump off that split second geo walking.

 

 

 

Edited by JB_
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21 hours ago, SaltyKoalaBear said:

Clowns make me wanna clown. It's a bad trait I know, gonna try to avoid it in future. I will say that It's not a coincidence  Ive only had a problem with a select few in the community. Some people's viewpoints and philosophies are just suffocating towards creative growth and diversity, and I'm always going to oppose that type of thinking agressively....  even if I make a fool out of myself doing so. Its so curious to me that  those who want to teach and preach often have the most to learn themselves. 

 

 

 

No, it isn't a coincidence. You have continuously brought up the same subject without ever fully substantiating your claims against the particular maps. You've instead chosen to vacillate between insults and being a voice of concerned rationality. So far, in this interchange, only Box and Westin have provided legible visual support (video or charts) to demonstrate anything that they are arguing about. That's real progress. What would be super cool is if you guys were to actually save video of a match or two on the maps in question and then post those with specific commentary.

 

I have no problem with you aggressively challenging viewpoints you disagree with. I have a problem with you prodding people, named or otherwise, being challenged on it, and then belittling them for  even getting involved in the first place. Not only that, you've dismissively responded to legitimate pushback against your view, and have not yet demonstrated that anyone's viewpoint or philosophy is suffocating to creative growth or diversity.

 

I challenge you to fully explain what, how, why, and whose philosophies are creatively stifling.  Because all I have seen from your arguments so far is that:

- words are objective but people are subjective (ergo words are not really objective)

people's subjective preferences dictate whether a game or map is any good

people's subjective preferences are neither good nor bad - except in the case where those preferences lead to the challenging of this premise

- doors can be smaller, so larger doors shouldn't necessarily be used, irrespective of the design context; the use of a larger door over a smaller door is grounds for total dismissal of a design and the poking and prodding of its designer for months, if not years in sporadic flareups

- as a corollary of the small doors and subjective preferences, Halo 5: Mechazoids is actually a tactical WWII shooter in disguise because you prefer games that can be played like tactical squad shooters

- anyone who defends their maps according to their subjective preferences automatically claim that they are perfect and literally flawless

- exploitation of the geometric shortcomings of the Forge engine allow for the proving that any and all maps designed in the game are not perfect, and therefore support your claim that they are only perfect because of the subjective preferences of the creator

 

Not to mention, you showed up on another forum, where you have only 6 posts as of today's count, in the middle of a discussion about Halo: CE and the future of Halo's game sandbox design, only to chime in and expound a variant of what you post here while vaguely referring to Multi's H5 maps as if you were some sort of psycho-social authority:

 

'Multi and Xandrith are smart but they can't see how silly they really are because the maps they build don't even live up to their standards, which aren't even real - good thing I am here to set the record straight and let everyone here know just how flawed these two guys are because I am smart enough to see that everything is silly and they really need to lighten up!' 


Did I miss something? Because if you are going to talk philosophy here, expect me to hit back against what you present and attempt to clean up the mess. Your expressed philosophy is more creatively and intellectually stifling than whatever it is you are challenging.

 

Consider this an official warning, pending a site update sometime this or next week.

 

-//-

 

@Box_Hoes

I appreciate the time you took to write out your arguments, but next time please do use visuals to illustrate your points instead of just offering get high level players on the map and see what they do. If you can get them to play, save the film(s) and post a link with commentary and timestamps, draw a chart of their movements, heatmaps, whatever it takes. Otherwise, I really could care less about any niggling issues on any maps Multi and/or Westin have made in the last few years, let alone ANY maps that have been made in Forge. These things are essentially a dime a dozen, and all it takes is 15 minutes to fix small issues and demonstrate how they affect the map. 

 

 

 

 

@MultiLockOn & @Westin

I read the 10 pages over at Beyond, and don't see any reason to disagree with your assessment of the situation. But stop taking the bait. Both of you are Staff here, so in a lot of ways this is your forum. Making a public show of quitting while lobbing a salvo isn't something I particularly appreciate, nor do I expect that Chunk appreciates it. 

 

-//-

 

Consider the matter in cold storage. I will be slowly [spoilering], editing or //hiding// any posts involved in this discussion over the last few pages until the pending update is posted sometime in the next couple weeks. That includes this post.

 

For now: The other day I played a match of 4v4 BR Slayer on Standoff in H3. I was engaging a guy on Satellite Camo from above Tree Base and he grabbed camo as it came up. Expecting him to move into an area with more enemies he could surprise, I shifted my focus to providing suppressing fire on the enemy team down by laser spawn. I then get assassinated by camo guy who literally walked all the way across the map with camo to spare. My temporary files are full, so here's the best I can do, visually.

 

image.png.25b2cc76660a166102385414061fbe56.png

 

Standoff really isn't a 4v4 map, nor does it really have any hard pathing, but I think that this is stunning testimony as to why camo is really only a good idea for BTB gametypes. In smaller maps and playercounts, it does nothing more than slow down gameplay and/or give free kills and should therefore really only be placed with custom transparency values that hover around 25%. I don't think I've put camo on a map since remaking Guardian in H4 in 2012.

 

 

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13 hours ago, icyhotspartin said:

 

 

No, it isn't a coincidence. You have continuously brought up the same subject without ever fully substantiating your claims against the particular maps. You've instead chosen to vacillate between insults and being a voice of concerned rationality. So far, in this interchange, only Box and Westin have provided legible visual support (video or charts) to demonstrate anything that they are arguing about. That's real progress. What would be super cool is if you guys were to actually save video of a match or two on the maps in question and then post those with specific commentary.

 

I have no problem with you aggressively challenging viewpoints you disagree with. I have a problem with you prodding people, named or otherwise, being challenged on it, and then belittling them for  even getting involved in the first place. Not only that, you've dismissively responded to legitimate pushback against your view, and have not yet demonstrated that anyone's viewpoint or philosophy is suffocating to creative growth or diversity.

 

I challenge you to fully explain what, how, why, and whose philosophies are creatively stifling.  Because all I have seen from your arguments so far is that:

- words are objective but people are subjective (ergo words are not really objective)

people's subjective preferences dictate whether a game or map is any good

people's subjective preferences are neither good nor bad - except in the case where those preferences lead to the challenging of this premise

- doors can be smaller, so larger doors shouldn't necessarily be used, irrespective of the design context; the use of a larger door over a smaller door is grounds for total dismissal of a design and the poking and prodding of its designer for months, if not years in sporadic flareups

- as a corollary of the small doors and subjective preferences, Halo 5: Mechazoids is actually a tactical WWII shooter in disguise because you prefer games that can be played like tactical squad shooters

- anyone who defends their maps according to their subjective preferences automatically claim that they are perfect and literally flawless

- exploitation of the geometric shortcomings of the Forge engine allow for the proving that any and all maps designed in the game are not perfect, and therefore support your claim that they are only perfect because of the subjective preferences of the creator

 

Not to mention, you showed up on another forum, where you have only 6 posts as of today's count, in the middle of a discussion about Halo: CE and the future of Halo's game sandbox design, only to chime in and expound a variant of what you post here while vaguely referring to Multi's H5 maps as if you were some sort of psycho-social authority:

 

'Multi and Xandrith are smart but they can't see how silly they really are because the maps they build don't even live up to their standards, which aren't even real - good thing I am here to set the record straight and let everyone here know just how flawed these two guys are because I am smart enough to see that everything is silly and they really need to lighten up!' 


Did I miss something? Because if you are going to talk philosophy here, expect me to hit back against what you present and attempt to clean up the mess. Your expressed philosophy is more creatively and intellectually stifling than whatever it is you are challenging.

 

Consider this an official warning, pending a site update sometime this or next week.

 

-//-

 

@Box_Hoes

I appreciate the time you took to write out your arguments, but next time please do use visuals to illustrate your points instead of just offering get high level players on the map and see what they do. If you can get them to play, save the film(s) and post a link with commentary and timestamps, draw a chart of their movements, heatmaps, whatever it takes. Otherwise, I really could care less about any niggling issues on any maps Multi and/or Westin have made in the last few years, let alone ANY maps that have been made in Forge. These things are essentially a dime a dozen, and all it takes is 15 minutes to fix small issues and demonstrate how they affect the map. 

 

 

 

 

@MultiLockOn & @Westin

I read the 10 pages over at Beyond, and don't see any reason to disagree with your assessment of the situation. But stop taking the bait. Both of you are Staff here, so in a lot of ways this is your forum. Making a public show of quitting while lobbing a salvo isn't something I particularly appreciate, nor do I expect that Chunk appreciates it. 

 

-//-

 

Consider the matter in cold storage. I will be slowly [spoilering], editing or //hiding// any posts involved in this discussion over the last few pages until the pending update is posted sometime in the next couple weeks. That includes this post.

 

For now: The other day I played a match of 4v4 BR Slayer on Standoff in H3. I was engaging a guy on Satellite Camo from above Tree Base and he grabbed camo as it came up. Expecting him to move into an area with more enemies he could surprise, I shifted my focus to providing suppressing fire on the enemy team down by laser spawn. I then get assassinated by camo guy who literally walked all the way across the map with camo to spare. My temporary files are full, so here's the best I can do, visually.

 

image.png.25b2cc76660a166102385414061fbe56.png

 

Standoff really isn't a 4v4 map, nor does it really have any hard pathing, but I think that this is stunning testimony as to why camo is really only a good idea for BTB gametypes. In smaller maps and playercounts, it does nothing more than slow down gameplay and/or give free kills and should therefore really only be placed with custom transparency values that hover around 25%. I don't think I've put camo on a map since remaking Guardian in H4 in 2012.

 

 

So you kept yourself in an isolated position tunnel visioning while someone had camo. While taking a fight that is pretty much pointless to take in H3 with the shitty BR. High level play, analysis and assessment right there. :Fat:

 

Camo and anything like camo i.e. the spy in TF2, Sombra in OW, etc. are designed to be pace changers that make teams dot their i's before they begin to put pressure on a team. I can understand if someone is trying to make a fast paced game or map why they wouldn't want a camo in it. Because it's literal job is to throw off the pace to either keep control or take control.

 

Camo is actually more broken in BTB. Due to the typically larger sandbox and larger maps that make it harder to pinpoint where a player is and giving players more options to combo with camo .

 

I will say almost anytime I have heard someone shit on camo it has oddly lined up with one to three things. One, a lack of patience or understanding of how to play against it. Two, there is something like sniper or rockets on the map as well that leads to it becoming more lethal. Three, player lacks map knowledge and gets abused.

 

I will say I am fairly decent at dealing with camo so my personal bias towards it is there but I feel like most negative takes towards it are literally driven by bias as well and are ignoring what the actual purpose of the power up is. If you don't like it's purpose don't put it on a map or in a game. 

 

 

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17 hours ago, JB_ said:

none of the ones you mentioned are ghost jumps sadly. And really NO one uses ghost jumps in MLG. They're not very practical and aren't in any good spots, amplified probably has the best and most useful ones. Guardian has a few but they're all deadly since you have to jump off railings to get to them (death).

 

This one is super useful on guardian but almost impossible

 

 

Construct has that one I linked, (not useful) Heretic has virtually none. Onslaught has one in the center to get to top middle but it's a super low ghost jump and fucks up everything you know about ghost jumping since you have to trigger it earlier than any other ghost jump ever.


The only (useful) ghost jump pit is on sniper tower and even then I dont think it's a ghost jump. I think he's crouching in between the geo and getting a jump off that split second geo walking.

 

 

 

I remember practicing that guardian one a bit. TIL that ghost ledge jumps are not the same as ghost jumps.

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2 hours ago, purely fat said:

So you kept yourself in an isolated position tunnel visioning while someone had camo. While taking a fight that is pretty much pointless to take in H3 with the shitty BR. High level play, analysis and assessment right there. :Fat:

 

Camo and anything like camo i.e. the spy in TF2, Sombra in OW, etc. are designed to be pace changers that make teams dot their i's before they begin to put pressure on a team. I can understand if someone is trying to make a fast paced game or map why they wouldn't want a camo in it. Because it's literal job is to throw off the pace to either keep control or take control.

 

Camo is actually more broken in BTB. Due to the typically larger sandbox and larger maps that make it harder to pinpoint where a player is and giving players more options to combo with camo .

 

I will say almost anytime I have heard someone shit on camo it has oddly lined up with one to three things. One, a lack of patience or understanding of how to play against it. Two, there is something like sniper or rockets on the map as well that leads to it becoming more lethal. Three, player lacks map knowledge and gets abused.

 

I will say I am fairly decent at dealing with camo so my personal bias towards it is there but I feel like most negative takes towards it are literally driven by bias as well and are ignoring what the actual purpose of the power up is. If you don't like it's purpose don't put it on a map or in a game. 

 

 


Very high level mid afternoon social match made game on MCC, yeah 🥞

I mean, I did move from spawn up there to the front of tree base, so the diagram is a little off and the second engagement makes a little more sense what with the turret that’s there for suppressing fire and medium range kills but..........

 

Context is king 

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3 minutes ago, icyhotspartin said:


Very high level mid afternoon social match made game on MCC, yeah 🥞

I mean, I did move from spawn up there to the front of tree base, so the diagram is a little off and the second engagement makes a little more sense what with the turret that’s there for suppressing fire and medium range kills but..........

 

Context is king 

Context is king and that is why I find most discussions about powerups to be a bit disingenuous. Because of personal experience and player skill level bullshit. Like if somebodies first Halo was H5. I absolutely understanding dumpstering camo. Especially, with the way people tend to play halo 5.

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14 hours ago, purely fat said:

So you kept yourself in an isolated position tunnel visioning while someone had camo. While taking a fight that is pretty much pointless to take in H3 with the shitty BR. High level play, analysis and assessment right there. :Fat:

 

Camo and anything like camo i.e. the spy in TF2, Sombra in OW, etc. are designed to be pace changers that make teams dot their i's before they begin to put pressure on a team. I can understand if someone is trying to make a fast paced game or map why they wouldn't want a camo in it. Because it's literal job is to throw off the pace to either keep control or take control.

 

Camo is actually more broken in BTB. Due to the typically larger sandbox and larger maps that make it harder to pinpoint where a player is and giving players more options to combo with camo .

 

I will say almost anytime I have heard someone shit on camo it has oddly lined up with one to three things. One, a lack of patience or understanding of how to play against it. Two, there is something like sniper or rockets on the map as well that leads to it becoming more lethal. Three, player lacks map knowledge and gets abused.

 

I will say I am fairly decent at dealing with camo so my personal bias towards it is there but I feel like most negative takes towards it are literally driven by bias as well and are ignoring what the actual purpose of the power up is. If you don't like it's purpose don't put it on a map or in a game. 

 

 

Interestingly enough, the enemy picking up camo should have sped up the pace of the battle If @icyhotspartin knew the correct play to make in that situation.

 

On 3/24/2021 at 6:29 PM, icyhotspartin said:

In smaller maps and playercounts, it does nothing more than slow down gameplay

Seeing the opposing player grab camo across the map, Icy should have immediately moved forward towards his 3 teammates (creating a barrier between them and the opposing camo player) and helped them in there 3v3 engagement, turning it into a 4v3 scenario.  This would force the camo player to reveal his position if he wished to provide immediate impact on the now 4v3 fight, thus reducing the effectiveness of the camo that he just picked up. Instead, Icy chose to stay isolated and allowed enough time, by staying in one position (camping/stagnation), for the camo player to travel ALL the way across the map, kill him, and sandwich ICY's poor teammates between the camo player and his 3 teammates.  

On 3/24/2021 at 6:29 PM, icyhotspartin said:

Expecting him to move into an area with more enemies he could surprise

One of the biggest advantages of Camo is the ability to have the element of surprise in  a 1v1 scenario, thus increasing your chances of winning the duel by getting first shot/being in an unpredictable position. It actually makes zero sense for a player with camo to engage multiple enemies at once, so unsure of why anyone that is isolated would expect a camo player to attack a cluster of players vs them as an isolated player. That approach is more suited towards someone that just picked up an over shield or damage boost..... Isnt this type of stuff Halo 101 basics?

 

 If anything, this post/situation described is STUNNING testimony as to why players that have very little game sense/knowledge should NOT use there own anecdotal experiences to evaluate the validity and fairness of in game elements such as Camo. Git gud and stop blaming powerups for your suboptimal play. 

 

 

 

 

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