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If we accept that an unpredictable spawn system is good, would that approval not carry over to Camo as well, a mechanic analogous to the spawn system?  

 

The spawn system finds a safe place then reveals the player.  Camo finds an advantageous position then reveals himself.  Why is unpredictable positioning good for the spawn system but bad for camo?  

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56 minutes ago, S0UL FLAME said:

Chill Out is my favorite Halo map, ever. Cold Storage is a close second, and the biggest reason I like it is the portal system. It's also one of the maps I know of that can be played with all of the weapons gone, and still be fun, because of its innate self-balancing through the portal system. No map quite like those two in the scope of Halo's map history. Incredibly unique, and incredibly replayable.

Halo delved into interactable stuff like ladders, portals, lifts, and mancannons for general use. Some maps have single use geometry changes or gimmicks, like the bridge on Zanzibar, the slow moving lift on Ivory tower, the doors on High Ground, etc. I think it'd be sick if we introduced more creative ways to interact with maps several different ways, instead of just putting in a one-time change or a shallow game changer. Let me elaborate with some hypotheticals.

 

Imagine you're fighting in an ONI base, and there are lights you can disable for thirty seconds in most of the rooms by shooting them. You'd need to activate your flashlight and check your corners.

 

Imagine you're in one of the hydro plants on Reach, and someone can open up the dam to make the water level increase, along with pushing unsuspecting players into a large pool, where they have to swim out. The water would slowly go back to regular levels, but the prospect of someone flipping the switch again is always possible.

 

Imagine you're on Cairo Station, and you can toss fusion coils at the windows to disable sound and introduce low gravity in the sector via space vacuum for a minute, before the window repairs itself and it goes back to normal again.

 

Imagine Big Team Battle on an isolated island, except there's a whole underground part of the map submerged in water, for both underwater vehicles and players to swim in.

 

Imagine a magma powered super drill (except not Rig) that has valves you can shoot that ooze lava over a portion of the map.

 

Imagine a fully destructible wooden cabin on a rainy night with Insurrection caches and weapons hidden in a stone basement.

 

Imagine a Covenant scarab fuel base where there's pools of acid you can traverse to get places faster with the tradeoff of lowered shields.

 

So. Much. Potential!

 

And of course Halo can also have all the kind of maps we have now, and the competitive community can have their stagnant basic stuff, but the sheer level of creativity someone could do with Halo maps is very real. Hell, we can drop the Halo aesthetic and make whatever we want, with all or none of the interactions we can think of. Just make sure they work.

 

Thank you for reading and Godspeed!

 

I think that water level idea is pretty neat, but I'm not sure how to best implement something like that. Cutting off key routes could be very interesting for gameplay. On YOINCC I did that with interactive blast doors, but the 'press 'x' to...' prompt isn't exactly Halo 5 friendly. Nor is it really a new idea, seeing as Last Resort and High Ground each had interactive elements like that. Obviously the key concept is the opposite, as it opens up rather than closes paths.

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7 minutes ago, icyhotspartin said:

Obviously the key concept is the opposite, as it opens up rather than closes paths.

Is altering map geometry the only way to open and close paths?  

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43 minutes ago, icyhotspartin said:

No. What are you driving at?

Are there any methods of opening and closing paths without altering geometry that you find particularly interesting, deep, or synergistic?  

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2 hours ago, S0UL FLAME said:

Imagine you're fighting in an ONI base, and there are lights you can disable for thirty seconds in most of the rooms by shooting them. You'd need to activate your flashlight and check your corners.

In limited amounts, I could see something to this effect working in SWAT.  The gametype only features one weapon so it’s muzzle flash could be balanced well instead of having to make every weapon look great in the dark.  Plus, you don’t have to worry about shield flare.  

 

2 hours ago, S0UL FLAME said:

Imagine you're in one of the hydro plants on Reach, and someone can open up the dam to make the water level increase, along with pushing unsuspecting players into a large pool, where they have to swim out. The water would slowly go back to regular levels, but the prospect of someone flipping the switch again is always possible.

If water was the thematic focus of the map, it should have more than just that one function.  What else could water do?  

2 hours ago, S0UL FLAME said:

Imagine you're on Cairo Station, and you can toss fusion coils at the windows to disable sound and introduce low gravity in the sector via space vacuum for a minute, before the window repairs itself and it goes back to normal again.

Electromagnetic boots could hold players to the floor as everything gets sucked out into space.  This would give knockback attacks increased utility during open-window because they can pop enemies off the ground and, subsequently, off the map.  

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How would you define game sense? i would say it's part of your brain capacity and processing, how many changing variables you are able track at the same time, this is usually something that goes on in the back of your mind due to the fact in fps games most of your attention needs to be spent focusing on what's directly in front of you

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Band-aid solution to a problematic design.

 

When your teammates die, have them spawn nearby if the enemy isn't close. If said enemy is close, have them spawn in another part of the map (Split Spawn). If you all die, spawn in another part of the map. Static spawns for CTF and Assault can work if your base has enough segregation to spawn you fairly safe. Spawn killing should be difficult to achieve unless you're synchronized well with your team.

 

Keep Halo simple.

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56 minutes ago, Boyo said:

@S0UL FLAME Why it ok for dead player to move around map invisibly but not for live player??? 

The dead player stayed above the body until Bungie introduced death cams. It got to the point where you technically had more information than if you were alive. Infinite has mitigated this somewhat; now you can only follow your teammates behind their right shoulder until you respawn again.

 

I like that change, because you gain just enough information instead of being someone's eyes in the back of their head.

 

No more questions.

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user controlled death cams are cool too though. Cause you can fake out the enemy. Even if they have "too much information" it could be wrong information. especially on CTF or oddball where the respawn is longer. People usually stay on their own dead bodies to callout where the enemy is going. but you can fake them out by make them think you're going one way, and then go another way when you know they respawned. So while they have information, it's incorrect information. And I like being able to control where i look because god forbid the camera is in an inconvient spot and is clipping behind geometry or visually blocked by something.

 

And while I can't back this up, it reminds me of forcing a players camera in FPS/VR games which can be disorienting to suddenly have control taken from you and forced to look at one perspective. 

 

I think you should have free control of your own death cam but when following teammates you should only be looking the direction they  (your teammate) are facing. That way like you said, no eyes in the back of their head. Sure maybe you could call out some dude that's out of your teammates FOV but not BEHIND them

 

Too bad itll never happen and I wasted my time typing this.

Edited by JB_
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1 hour ago, JB_ said:

user controlled death cams are cool too though. Cause you can fake out the enemy. Even if they have "too much information" it could be wrong information. especially on CTF or oddball where the respawn is longer. People usually stay on their own dead bodies to callout where the enemy is going. but you can fake them out by make them think you're going one way, and then go another way when you know they respawned. So while they have information, it's incorrect information.

Should items that assist you in disseminating that type of disinformation, eg hologram, be part of the sandbox in some form?  

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The fact that Active Camo shuts off sticky reticle (and possibly bullet magnetism?), that's my gripe with it.

 

Being cloaked visually is one thing, but having what essentially amounts to an anti aim shield around you is what pushes it  bit over the edge for my personal tastes, specifically Halo 5. 

 

@MultiLockOn

The value of camo and other powerups/powerweapons that a player would always be better with comes from how a player can maximize the strength or value of that item versus another player. 

 

In a competitive setting, there could very well be a player on a team (player a) that can use the camo better then player b,c or d.  This would encourage situations where the team may want to prioritize getting the resource in the hands of  player  a who could  MAXIMIZE the resources strength.   

 

I have to judge everything by a case to case basis, but powerups that just make you inherently better with " no extra skill required"  are fine in small doses in my opinion as the skill comes in the form of maximizing there potential versus other players.

 

  All camo users are not created equal, some can manage to only get a kill from it, others might be able to get 5. There is value and worth in how well individuals can leverage a resource versus other individuals. How far can they stretch the control of the resource versus others.

 

 

Edited by SaltyKoalaBear
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4 minutes ago, SaltyKoalaBear said:

The fact that Active Camo shuts off sticky reticle (and possibly bullet magnetism?), that's my gripe with it.

 

Being cloaked visually is one thing, but having what essentially amounts to an anti aim shield around you is what pushes it  bit over the edge for my personal tastes, specifically Halo 5. 

 

@MultiLockOn

The value of camo and other powerups/powerweapons that a player would always be better with comes from how a player can maximize the strength or value of that item versus another player. 

 

In a competitive setting, there could very well be a player on a team (player a) that can use the camo better then player b,c or d.  This would encourage situations where the team may want to prioritize getting the resource in the hands of  player  a who could  MAXIMIZE the resources strength.   

 

I have to judge everything by a case to case basis, but powerups that just make you inherently better with " no extra skill required"  are fine in small doses in my opinion as the skill comes in the form of maximizing there potential versus other players.

 

  All camo users are not created equal, some can manage to only get a kill from it, others might be able to get 5. There is value and worth in how well individuals can leverage a resource versus other individuals. How far can they stretch the control of the resource versus others.

 

 

I think I agree with pretty much all of that. I think I differ in if possible, I'd cut out even the little but of "fine in small doses" and take the reasoning to the logical end. This would probably be an easier conversation to have if there actually ever were precedent of a powerup in a game that legitimately introduced a really notable additional skill to it, as far as I'm aware though there really haven't been. 

 

But yeah some people can take even things that are blatant buffs and use them more intelligently.  With camo I think it comes down to decision making and judging your time remaining vs your positioning. I actually would wager I die more than most with it because I'm impatient.

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Forcing random spawns and controlling camo are both a means to unpredictable positioning, one via position control and the other via item control.  

 

The concept of occupying a specific position in order to influence your teammate’s spawn is Halo’s own minimalist Splitgate built right in.  Where randoms are the losing team’s escape hatch, Camo is the winning team’s reward.  The push and pull of two opposing forces of positioning creates dynamic yet structured gameplay.  

 

Why wouldn’t a 2+2 spawn system work for 4v4, where you buddy spawn unless a random is forced by your counterpart?  

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I feel like I’m being punked here…

Is there some kind of contest going on to see who can make the most ridiculous, off topic posts in this thread?

Have my hands more than full with real life stuff right now, but I feel like the content of this thread needs to change because there’s no way in hell anyone new is going to jump in here and interact with you all. 
I don’t care about any personal drama. Keep it out of here. 

 

Edit: I've moved a crap load of posts to OT of OT because they don't belong here.

Edited by a Chunk
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2 new maps incoming 

 

Maelstrom: An idea I have been thinking about for a while which uses perspective angles (lots of V shapes) and fulcrum pivot points. My most solid example of 1/3/5 pathing as xandrith put it. 

 

Palatial Edge: Another take on time bombing method I talked about a few days ago. It’s a dual atrium map where fights should always start in one atrium and keep rotating and cycling between the two atriums various times because of how the overlapped pathways weave through each other. It focuses on the higher you climb the number of paths to escape diminish and the length of the paths becomes longer. Probably the most complex layout I have without the use of teleporters. 
 

TO ANOTHER YEAR OF FORGE BECAUSE 343 CANT CLOSE!

 

Screenshots sometime this weekend 


 

 

Edited by Box_Hoes
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